Discussion Forum | A Way with Words

Glenn on Agenda 2/6/2010

Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:41:13 +0000

I agree with your point: dictionaries are, at best, very imperfect approximations of the actual language.

Hathaway on Agenda 2/6/2010

Sun, 14 Mar 2010 21:51:55 +0000

agenda (pl. agendas): a list of things to be done/discussed (etymological plural of Latin agendum)
data [plural; singular form datum]: facts that have been gathered (from Latin datum, past participle of dare = given]
(Source: American Heritage Dictionary and Longman Advanced American Dictionary)
"Certain nouns in –a are regularly treated as singular, though the ending represents an original plural: agenda, insignia. The use of other nouns in –a as singulars is controversial, e.g. media, criteria, phenomena, strata etc. In scientific discourse, data is commonly used as a non-count noun" (= followed by a singular verb). (Source: Greenbaum, Oxford English Grammar)

Glenn on Agenda 2/6/2010

Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:48:25 +0000

Perhaps people perceive data as singular as in a collection of related facts or numbers. If an agenda can be legitimately singular by being a list, why can't data be considered a singular collection? After all, a datum is of questionable value. Data is / are more prudently taken as a collective working together to support a conclusion, regardless of your convictions on the proper verbal number to press into service.

Hathaway on Agenda 2/6/2010

Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:42:44 +0000

There is a difference between data and agenda. Data in English has the same meaning as in Latin: facts (plural) gathered. It, therefore, cannot be used with a singular verb. Agenda, on the other hand, has in English (A LIST OF tasks to be performed/items to be discussed = singular) a different meaning from Latin where it means tasks (= plural) to be performed. Thus, using agenda with a singular verb is not a matter of being “widely accepted.” It is simply correct while using a singular verb with data, also “widely accepted,” is not correct.

lynnmelo on Agenda 2/6/2010

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 23:20:30 +0000

I'm unclear about your post. You wrote, "I do not quite agree with the statement that 'agenda' has been widely accepted as a singular noun although it is a latin plural. Indeed, agenda is a latin plural but an English singular." In your first sentence, you say you do not agree with "agenda" being accepted as singular, but your second sentence asserts that it is used as a singular in English. Also, your example points to the use of it as singular. I'm confused about what you disagree with.

Hathaway on Agenda 2/6/2010

Sat, 06 Feb 2010 15:39:06 +0000

I do not quite agree with the statement that "agenda" has been widely accepted as a singular noun although it is a latin plural. Indeed, agenda is a latin plural but an English singular. The latin singular "agendum" means a (!) task to be done. The latin plural thus refers to tasks (!) to be done. The English word agenda, however, with its meaning of a set of problems that need to be addressed/dealt with = a list of issues definitely has a singular meaning since it denotes THE LIST rather than the issues themselves (as agenda in latin). This is very unlike the word data, which in fact means gathered facts (!), thus is clearly a plural.
Yours, hathaway