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4:09PM Apr-10-10
| Grant Barrett
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A few pickles short of a jar, a few peas short of a casserole, two French fries short of a Happy Meal—this week, Martha and Grant discuss these and other full-deckisms, those clever ways to describe someone who falls short in some way. Also, what's the story behind the old phrase "fish or cut bait"? When does the word "it's" have an apostrophe? And is "that's a good question" really a good response?
This episode first aired April 20, 2010. Listen here:
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"Not the brightest bulb in the Christmas tree lights," "The wind is blowing but nothing's moving," "A few tacos short of a combo platter." After Grant tells a story on himself, the hosts discuss euphemistic ways of saying someone's not playing with a full deck.
Is it ever okay to write the word it's to indicate the possessive? Is the correct sentence "The dog is chewing its bone," or "The dog is chewing it's bone"? It's easy to figure out once you know the formula: It's = it is.
Grant mentions that there's an ice cream called "It's It."
Fish or cut bait. What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
In an earlier episode, we discussed linguistic false friends, those words in foreign languages that look like familiar English words, but mean something quite different. Martha reads an email response from a listener who learned the hard way that in Norway "Tann Paste" is not the same as "tanning cream."
Quiz Guy Greg Pliska has a puzzle called "Categorical Allies." After he says a word, you must come up with second word that's in the same category, and begins with the last two letters of the original word. For example, if he says "Sampras," then the category is tennis, and the second word is "Ashe." Now try this first clue: "Sacramento." The second word would be…?
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
A Texas caller wonders about the origin and meaning of the term ultracrepidarian.
Grant shares an entomological—not etymological—riddle.
The expression "It'll never be seen on a galloping horse" means "Don't be such a perfectionist." But why? A caller remembers an even odder version: It'll never be seen on a galloping goose.
In an earlier episode, a caller named Todd said that people are forever calling him Scott. He wondered if there was some linguistic reason that people so often confused these names. Grant does a follow-up on why people sometimes mix up names.
You're struggling to live on a budget. Are you trying to make ends meet or make ends meat?
The hosts offer some more full-deckisms, such as "He doesn't have all his cornflakes in one box" and "She thought she couldn't use her AM radio in the evening."
A San Francisco man confesses he routinely pronounces the word "both" as "bolth." Grant gives him the results of an informal online survey that shows the caller he's not alone—some 10 percent of respondents said they do the same thing.
Is there a single word that sums up the idea of morbid fascination?
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9:20AM Apr-11-10
| marvwhitman
| | Menomonie, WI | |
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I'm living in Wisconsin now. Home of the Ole' and Lena jokes. So, in honor of this genre, whenever someone is a little bit aways from the norm I just say they are 'one Lena short of a joke'.
Grant Barrett said:
A few pickles short of a jar, a few peas short of a casserole, two French fries short of a Happy Meal—this week, Martha and Grant discuss these and other full-deckisms, those clever ways to describe someone who falls short in some way. Also, what's the story behind the old phrase "fish or cut bait"? When does the word "it's" have an apostrophe? And is "that's a good question" really a good response?
Audio will be available here for downloading and online listening Monday, April 12, 2010.
To be automatically notified when audio is available, subscribe to the podcast using iTunes or another podcatching program.
"Not the brightest bulb in the Christmas tree lights," "The wind is blowing but nothing's moving," "A few tacos short of a combo platter." After Grant tells a story on himself, the hosts discuss euphemistic ways of saying someone's not playing with a full deck.
Is it ever okay to write the word it's to indicate the possessive? Is the correct sentence "The dog is chewing its bone," or "The dog is chewing it's bone"? It's easy to figure out once you know the formula: It's = it is.
Grant mentions that there's an ice cream called "It's It."
Fish or cut bait. What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
In an earlier episode, we discussed linguistic false friends, those words in foreign languages that look like familiar English words, but mean something quite different. Martha reads an email response from a listener who learned the hard way that in Norway "Tann Paste" is not the same as "tanning cream."
Quiz Guy Greg Pliska has a puzzle called "Categorical Allies." After he says a word, you must come up with second word that's in the same category, and begins with the last two letters of the original word. For example, if he says "Sampras," then the category is tennis, and the second word is "Ashe." Now try this first clue: "Sacramento." The second word would be…?
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
A Texas caller wonders about the origin and meaning of the term ultracrepidarian.
Grant shares an entomological—not etymological—riddle.
The expression "It'll never be seen on a galloping horse" means "Don't be such a perfectionist." But why? A caller remembers an even odder version: It'll never be seen on a galloping goose.
In an earlier episode, a caller named Todd said that people are forever calling him Scott. He wondered if there was some linguistic reason that people so often confused these names. Grant does a follow-up on why people sometimes mix up names.
You're struggling to live on a budget. Are you trying to make ends meet or make ends meat?
The hosts offer some more full-deckisms, such as "He doesn't have all his cornflakes in one box" and "She thought she couldn't use her AM radio in the evening."
A San Francisco man confesses he routinely pronounces the word "both" as "bolth." Grant gives him the results of an informal online survey that shows the caller he's not alone—some 10 percent of respondents said they do the same thing.
Is there a single word that sums up the idea of morbid fascination?
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9:05PM Apr-11-10
| wagnerpaulj
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Post edited 9:15PM – Apr-11-10 by wagnerpaulj
I think this phrase is somewhat overused – as was said on the show, it may be more a way of stalling for time or just giving some positive strokes to the person asking the question. However, as a university professor who used to respond with this phrase to almost every question to be supportive of my students, I have come to the conclusion that not all questions are good. Examples are 1) asking questions that were just asked by another student, but the questioner wasn't paying attention, 2) asking questions that are intended to make a point rather than truly inquire on a subject (e.g. I have had students in the past who posture to try to increase other students' perceptions of the questioner), and 3) asking questions that cannot fairly be answered (e.g. the "when did you stop beating your spouse?" type of question, though I haven't seen this happen in a university setting.) So, at least I would suggest that people consider carefully whether the question was truly good before saying this.
Paul
Grant Barrett said:
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
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12:35PM Apr-12-10
| radleyas
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Fish or cut bait. What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
As I understand this phrase, it means to "either do it, or give up". It's, in my mind, identical to "sh*t or get off the pot". I've lived all over the country and have used this phrase in that way in so many states. I've always been understood.
Martha reads an email response from a listener who learned the hard way that in Norway "Tann Paste" is not the same as "tanning cream."
This does not ring true to me. Surely she would have smelled the mint??
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4:24PM Apr-12-10
| Glenn
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Post edited 4:48PM – Apr-12-10 by Glenn
Martha, while you and I share that we experienced grammar-school traumas — mine being the serial comma — I have to disagree with your teacher's rule: it's could also mean "it has."
e.g. "It's been 3 years since we've gone to Europe."
In this case, your teacher's rule would break. You cannot substitute "it is" for this it's. But you certainly should not write it as its.
If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
I have been encouraged by these words at times when asking a somewhat public question. In other settings, I've witnessed questions that pointed out issues that had not been considered, but that were important oversights. Everyone was glad the question was raised. So I don't really have a problem with this, even if it is used as a crutch for the speaker to gather thoughts.
The related expression that does bother me is "There's no such thing as a stupid question." I often respond "We all know that's not true." Then, if pressed, I would refer to situations similar to those that wagnerpaulj so aptly points out above.
wagnerpaulj
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5:03PM Apr-12-10
| Ron Draney
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radleyas said:
Fish or cut bait. What does it mean, exactly? Stop fishing and cut your line, or stop fishing and do something else useful, like cutting bait?
As I understand this phrase, it means to "either do it, or give up". It's, in my mind, identical to "sh*t or get off the pot". I've lived all over the country and have used this phrase in that way in so many states. I've always been understood.
The main character in the movie "Trixie", played by Emily Watson, is a detective given to muddled language. In one of her first speeches of the film, she tells someone he should "either fish or get off the pot".
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11:23PM Apr-12-10
| radleyas
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The main character in the movie "Trixie", played by Emily Watson, is a detective given to muddled language. In one of her first speeches of the film, she tells someone he should "either fish or get off the pot".
That's hilarious! I'm going to have check out that film.
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12:00AM Apr-13-10
| Ron Draney
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I too have been guilty of declaring something "a good question", but that means I have some insight into what it is that elicits such a response. When I'm teaching a class or giving a presentation, I have a set of topics that I need to address, and a rough idea of how I'm going to get from one topic to the next. Some of those transitions are smoother than others, and if someone happens to ask a question at the appropriate moment that will lead nicely into the next point, that not only makes it easier for me, but may well make the subject matter easier for the audience to follow, and it tells me that what I've presented up to that point has the questioner thinking along the same lines as my talk.
Not that there's anything wrong with a simple "I don't quite understand what you mean by X", but when a question has benefits in three distinct areas, I think it's worth acknowledging the fact.
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12:03AM Apr-13-10
| Ron Draney
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Oh, and there's an exception to the rule that says "it's with an apostrophe can always be expanded to "it is". And it's been on my mind since the episode aired.
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3:23AM Apr-13-10
| Glenn
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Post edited 8:00AM – Apr-13-10 by Glenn
The situation with the apostrophe in its and it's also isn't all that unique. Consider
your / you're
their / they're
whose / who's
Still few people confuse his with he's or her with she's. My conclusion is that it's not simply the apostrophe or its lack that causes the confusion, but that there is also a strong phonetic componant to these substitutions and confusions. The argument for the phonetic componant is supported each time the word there gets mixed in with their or they're.
[edit: added the following]
Perhaps it would make good advice to a struggler to suggest the trial substitution of his / he's (or my / I'm?) to see which fits, then follow that pattern, apostrophe or none, based on the result of that test. I've never tried giving this advice, so I'll have to get back to you all on the success.
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10:58AM Apr-13-10
| modhran
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A fun full-deckism that I've used in the past is really just adding to a standard phrase to describe a certain kind of person who is beautiful enough that they've decided to use their looks rather than their minds:
"Nothing up stairs, but oh, what a staircase"
Like how Judy Holliday's character, Billie, began in Born Yesterday
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11:07AM Apr-13-10
| modhran
| | Portland, OR | |
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If someone says, "That's a good question," do you find it annoying or insincere?
I've heard the "that's a good question" line many times used to mean "I was hoping you'd ask that so I can say something I wanted to say anyway" but on a few occasions I've heard people actually using it to express a happy surprise when someone asks a question that the person had never considered before; that's the most honest use of the phrase.
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1:57PM Apr-13-10
| johng423
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Post edited 3:36PM – Apr-13-10 by johng423
Ron – Because the "… get off the pot" expression is popular locally, but I don't want to use the crude language at the beginning of the phrase, I have used "fish or get off the pot" for years. (I never saw the movie.) It's off-kilter just enough to catch attention. (Same with "That's the way the cookie bounces." Ditto for "We can complain that roses have thorns, or we can be glad that . . . thorns smell so good.")
. . .
"That's a good question" – I'm OK if it's not patronizing. When teaching workshops, if a question leads into the next point, I often say, "That's a good segue into…" To new questions I usually respond: "No one has asked me that before. Let me think about that for a minute…"
What does annoy me is when someone wants to make a statement, but either begins or ends with "Wouldn't you agree [that]…?" (or something equivalent). I feel the speaker is applying subtle pressure to control my response. [Wouldn't you agree? – Just kidding, but how did you feel when I threw that in?]
. . .
It's / Its – I use the same hint Martha does: The apostrophe indicates a contraction of two words (it's = it is or it has). Also, I can't think of any possessive pronouns that contain an apostrophe.
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6:38PM Apr-13-10
| separator
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Post edited 6:40PM – Apr-13-10 by separator
Re: fish or cut bait: Grant and Martha, along with the caller, seemed to be a bit wrapped around the axle trying to parse the phrase too literally. While it can certainly be used that way, the caller was talking about a discussion he was having with his friend that seemed to be unable to reach resolution. This is the case with most uses of this phrase (IMHO), in that it infers that whatever is being concentrated upon should get busy proceeding to resolution, or it should be dropped altogether and something else should be engaged. It is more of an allusionary phrase (if allusionary is a word) and less intended to be used literally.
Also, re: off-kilter phrasing: my son's band director used a similar device. When trying to get across the point that a certain thing should be simply achieved, he'd say, "Hey, it's not rocket surgery."
My $0.02.
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9:57AM Apr-14-10
| johng423
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"fish or cut bait" – I think another phrase (almost equivalent) is "Lead, follow, or get out of the way!"
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10:07AM Apr-14-10
| johng423
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"cut bait" – Reminds me of an old joke:
Rumor was that someone was fishing by throwing live dynamite into the lake, then collecting the dead fish that floated to the surface. The local game warden (dressed in plain clothes) convinced the suspect to go fishing in a boat together.
Out on the lake, the suspect lit a stick of dynamite. The warden immediately started to tell him, "I'm the game warden, and you are under arrest…"
The suspect handed him the dynamite and said, "Did you come here to talk, or to fish?"
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10:20AM Apr-14-10
| johng423
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Found this link/site for full-deckisms
http://pages.city2000.net/~mki…..lldeck.htm
Notes
(1) Many don't seem (to me) to fit the pattern, but still may be useful (if you find insults useful).
(2) Many seem to be computer/technology related. (I didn't understand a lot of them, or didn't think they were funny.)
(3) BTW, the title (as seen in the title bar of the browser window, not on the page itself) is spelled _Fulldeckism's_, using apostrophe-S to indicate plural. *sigh*
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7:45PM Apr-15-10
| Highpockets
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As I listened to the discussion about its and it's I was wondering if it 's a chicken or an egg thing, which came first the 's possessive or the ' for a contraction.
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1:12PM Apr-17-10
| Faux Frenchie
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A most enjoyable show! Since I live in France, I can't resist pointing out an amusing mispronunciation in Grant's explanation of why it's "make ends meet" and not "meat." He said it came from the French phrase "joindre les deux bouts" but he made bouts rhyme with deux instead of sounding like boo in English. This made me laugh out loud because it sounded like bœufs (the f isn't pronounced in the plural like it is in the singular) which means beef, which is of course meat! In all fairness, in the plural it would generally mean cattle rather than something ready to be eaten, but it was delightfully ironic anyway.
Thanks for a great show and a great laugh, even if the latter was unintentional.
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3:10PM Apr-18-10
| tatiana.larina
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RE: morbid fascination
Lit crit/philosophy people actually have a word for it: "abjection" as used by the French philosopher and psychoanalyst Julia Kristeva in her book "Powers of Horror: An Essay on Abjection". Here is a short but very, shall I say, evocative quote (New York: Columbia University Press, 1982, transl. Leon S. Roudiez).
Loathing an item of food, a piece of filth, waste or dung. The spasms and vomiting that protect me. The repugnance, the retching that thrusts me to the side and protects me from defilement, sewage and muck. The shame of compromise, of being in the middle of treachery. The fascinated start that leads me toward and separates me from them.
The whole book is rather heavy-going for those not used to psychoanalytic jargon, but responds to your listener's question, I think, quite precisely.
And of course Plato addressed the same issue (but without naming it) with his famous story in Republic about Leontius:
Leontius, the son of Aglaion, was going up from the Piraeus along the outside of the North Wall when he saw some corpses lying at the executioners feet. He had an appetite to look at them but at the same time he was disgusted and turned away. For a time he struggled with himself and covered his face, but, finally overpowered by the appetite, he pushed his eyes wide open and rushed towards the corpses, saying, “Look for yourselves, you evil wretches, take your fill of the beautiful sight.
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11:28PM Apr-18-10
| Grant Barrett
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Oh, God. Thanks for the correction to my French. The longer I stay away from France, the worse my French gets. I was last there in 2004. I expect I'll sound like any other tourist by the time I make it there next.
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10:15PM Apr-19-10
| Andrew Troth
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Regarding "That's a good question": I think this is often used in a way that's almost euphemistic, as a substitute for a blunter response like "That's a question I hadn't thought of and don't have a ready answer to." It buys the speaker time to come up with a valid response, while complimenting the questioner instead of admitting the responder's ill-preparedness. It's a face-saver. Of course, it can be sincere too, but I think it's rare for someone to utter that phrase with the intent of making a value judgement vis-a-vis the questioner's previous questions.
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6:47AM Apr-25-10
| Glenn
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Post edited 7:01AM – Apr-25-10 by Glenn
I like "not the sharpest cheese in the dairy case" or "not enough watts to read by." For someone in management in business, "he can't spell CEO" makes the point. Unfortunately, this one usually is said in the context of an inexplicable promotion: "Can you believe they made him a Director? He can't even spell CEO!"
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3:48PM Apr-27-10
| jenny
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I like it!! One of my favorites: He isn't the sharpest tool in the shed OR She isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer
modhran said:
A fun full-deckism that I've used in the past is really just adding to a standard phrase to describe a certain kind of person who is beautiful enough that they've decided to use their looks rather than their minds:
"Nothing up stairs, but oh, what a staircase"
Like how Judy Holliday's character, Billie, began in Born Yesterday
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10:52PM Apr-27-10
| Rick Reid
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- An Aussie version of a full-deckism – "He has kangaroos loose in the top paddock"
- The way I remember "it's" and "its". "his" is possessive and has no apostrophe, similarly "its"
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4:13PM Apr-30-10
| Bill 5
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Post edited 4:15PM – Apr-30-10 by Bill 5
re: Galloping Goose
The expression "It'll never be seen on a galloping horse" means "Don't be such a perfectionist." But why? A caller remembers an even odder version: It'll never be seen on a galloping goose.
I was surprised you went in the direction of machinery that was unreliable for galloping goose. I had seen some of the original Galloping Geese (Is it Gooses if it's a proper noun??) years ago at the Colorado Railroad Museum, and just saw another one at Knott's Berry Farm last weekend. (They gave a behind-the-scenes tour of their steam railroad "roundhouse" to the Boy Scouts as part of railroading merit badge. By the way, their roundhouse is a rectangular cube.)
They were buses (originally Buick sedans) modified to run on the narrow gauge rails in the Colorado mountains so the Rio Grande Southern could cheaply keep their US Mail contract when ridership dropped off to too few to pay for a full steam train. A gas or diesel motor railcar could do the minimal job much, much cheaper than a steam locomotive, as long as there wasn't a lot of ore to haul.
Wikipedia has a brief, but good article here. (Grant, I was sure you would have checked at least this!)
And here is Wikipedia's explanation for the name sounds more likely to me. (Though, of course, we all know Wikipedia has both the greatest amount of correct information and the greatest amount of myth & disinformation all collected in one place!)
It is unclear exactly where the name "Galloping Goose" comes from. It is mostly commonly suggested that it referred to the way the carbody and the freight compartment tended to rock back and forth on the line's sometimes precarious track. It is also suggested, though, that the name arose because the "geese" were equipped with air horns rather than the whistles of the steam locomotives. The name was used informally for years before the tourist operations, though the railroad officially referred to the units as "motors".
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11:25PM May-01-10
| BobBrown
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In the April 28 David Letterman Top Ten List there is a reference to Todds and Scotts
Link: http://is.gd/bQBDm
Top Ten Signs Your Governor Is Nuts
4.Just ordered the deportation of guys named Scott or Todd
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2:00PM May-02-10
| Chuck
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Post edited 2:01PM – May-02-10 by Chuck
To the "fish or cut bait" discussion, I thought adding the lyrics of the Roy Holdren song of the same name might be interesting:
Holdren's Story about the song:
Growing up in South Dakota my family did custom cattle work. Freeze branding, artificial breeding, pregnancy testing, etc., if it said moo, we did it. It was dangerous work with serious consequences for yourself or others. I can still hear my dad snapping, “Both hands while learning!” when I wasn’t paying attention to what I was doing.
This was my second write at a song based around that phrase. Actually, my dad has probably been fishing no more than five times in his life. But as they say, “Never let the truth stand in the way of a good song”.
Give my daddy a pair of pliers and little wire
And he can fix anything
Got his PHD on grandpa’s knee, a tractor seat
And the front porch swing
Every Sunday after church
He’d change out of his one good shirt
Grab his old khaki jacket and a can of worms and go fishin’
And he’d take me along ….and he’d say…
Use both hands while learnin’, keep takin’ up that slack
Don’t waste time wishin’ go fishin’ for the big’un
Cause you gotta throw the little ones back
You gotta learn when it’s time to set the hook
And when to leave well enough alone
When it’s down to get doin’ and it’s gotta get done
You gotta fish, cut bait, or go home
When I was sixteen daddy seemed mean, out-of-touch,
Old, and in the way
Then about the time I turned twenty five
He started getting smarter everyday
Now every morning I put on a fresh white shirt
Grab a tie and jacket and go to work
It’s a hundred-mile-a-minute life a man could get hurt
But I’m doing fine just a’doin’ what my daddy said
…and he said….
So here is is either do something useful or leave.
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5:52PM Jun-17-10
| ltracy
| | Santa Rosa, CA | |
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BobBrown said:
In the April 28 David Letterman Top Ten List there is a reference to Todds and Scotts
Link: http://is.gd/bQBDm
Top Ten Signs Your Governor Is Nuts
4.Just ordered the deportation of guys named Scott or Todd
This Todd/Scott thing is clearly a common phenomenon. One thing I thought about is that the vowels are the same. I'm not an expert on the brain, but my husband has some Central Auditory Processing issues and I have noted that he always gets the vowels but misses the consonants. Once I asked his son, similarly linguistically inclined, to put the place mats on the table. He heard "face masks." This happens over and over again. It makes me wonder if there's a part of the brain that would react like that in larger percentage of humans.
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8:42PM Feb-03-11
| Cassiopeia
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I was watching a BBC series from a few years back on DVD recently, The Vicar of Dibley. One of the characters (a gruff farmer) was describing someone whose competence was not up to snuff and described him as "a few teats short of an udder". It made me laugh and reminded me of this past episode with "pickles short of a jar", so thought I would share.
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2:09PM Apr-16-11
| Elise
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Some of my favorite full deck-isms: His cheese slipped off his cracker. He's not the brightest bulb in the circuit. His elevator doesn't go to the top floor.
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12:56PM Apr-18-11
| ablestmage
| | Wichita Falls, TX | |
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In an earlier episode, a caller named Todd said that people are forever calling him Scott. He wondered if there was some linguistic reason that people so often confused these names. Grant does a follow-up on why people sometimes mix up names.
I have a personal theory on this. As a little backstory, I used to work in a call-center with lots of downtime and a few employees would collaborate to play a game that "mined" larger words for smaller words found therein made from the letters (and their frequency) from within that larger word. In the process of developing my pen-and-paper strategy for finding more words faster, I separated vowels and consonants into two horizontal rows, with vowels lined up below consonants, so I could flip flop up and down to make new combinations. We played the game for several years, never growing weary of it, and in the process I inadvertently trained myself to notice the patterns of vowels to consonants within words, as a technique of determining whether a larger word contained a fewer or greater number of words, or its eligibility for use in the game. I came to realize that I also remembered peoples' names because of the vowel-consonant pattern, so when Katheryn was confused with Margaret, it immediately made perfect sense to me because the vowel-consonant pattern is practically identical.
MARGARET
KATHERYN
As for Scott and Todd, I propose that it may be the double-consonant ending where the confusion comes in. I know way more Scotts than Todds, and if remembering that it ended in a double consonant (being rather, a double of the same letter) I'd quicker suggest Scott than Todd.
A San Francisco man confesses he routinely pronounces the word "both" as "bolth." Grant gives him the results of an informal online survey that shows the caller he's not alone—some 10 percent of respondents said they do the same thing.
I have heard people pronounce it that way, but it never occurred to me that people saying it that way inserted an L. What I hear is that someone from, perhaps the Minnesota region, who say "Don'tcha know" with "o" found in "fork" (and perhaps pronounce "Minnesota" similarly). I've heard that particular "o" sound, but never presumed it to be an insertion of and L sound at all. The first time I encountered "bolth" was within the last year, when a commenter on one of my YouTube videos actually wrote it out as "bolth" instead of the traditional spelling.
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