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8:00AM Dec-13-08
| Grant Barrett
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We recommend books that make great gifts for language lovers, talk about footwear called go-aheads, and look further into going commando. Also, was the 2008 election a historic event or an historic event?
Audio for downloading and online listening will be available here Monday, December 15, 2008.
To be automatically notified when audio is available, subscribe to the podcast using .
The second edition of the is chock-full of synonyms, of course, but what makes it special are the essays and usage notes by authors such as Simon Winchester, David Lehman, Zadie Smith, and David Foster Wallace. Grant talks about his experience working as an editor on this volume and what David Foster Wallace taught him about language.
We all know that the 2008 presidential election was historic. But was it a historic event or an historic event?
The story goes that hemlines rise and fall with the stock market. If that's the case, then we hope it's not long before we're all hearing people exclaim, "Why, that skirt is almost up to possible!" An Iowa listener recalls that when she was a teen, her granny used that phrase when tsk-tsking about the length of her granddaughter's miniskirt.
In an , we speculated about the origin of the phrase go commando, which means to go without underwear. We suggested that it was somehow associated with being "tough as a commando," gritting one's teeth through the attendant chafing. But a listener who served as an infantryman in Vietnam has a different take. After a comrade suggested he "go commando," he discovered that opting out of his army-issued boxer shorts actually made him more comfortable in the tropical heat. We love these firsthand reports about language, so keep ’em coming.
We welcome back the other half of our clopping Clydesdale team of Quiz Guys, Greg Pliska. This week, Greg hauls in some limericks in honor of the year 2008. As you might expect, his Odes to ’08 cover everything from the ridiculous to the subprime.
You hear about political groups canvassing for votes. But why canvas? We talk about the possible origins of this word, and the connection between the cannabis and the material known as canvas.
There's the late CNN broadcaster William Headline, the preacher named James God, and the physician named Dr. Hurt. Names like these that match the person's profession are called aptronyms or aptonyms. We talk about the man who coined the term aptronym, and toss in a few more examples. Have a favorite aptronym from your own experience? Tell us about it in the .
Here's a question more and more same-sex couples face when starting a family: What names will our child call us? "Mommy and Mama"? "Mommy and Jane?" Maybe a made-up name? An Ohio woman and her female partner are contemplating having a baby, but can't decide which parental names to use.
This week's Slang This! contestant from the , is an actress from New York City. In this hospital-themed quiz, she tries to guess the meaning of the terms sillysoma, fascinoma, happy meal, and code brown.
Slap, slap, slap, slap—the sound of flip-flops on your feet. These floppy-soled shoes go by other names like zoris and thongs, but a caller wonders why in some parts of the country they're called go-aheads.
You have a pair of gloves, and there are two of them; you have a pair of shoes, and there are two; a pair of socks, and there's one for each foot, right? So why do we have a pair of jeans when it's only one item?
Finally today, Martha and Grant talk about two books they love to recommend as gifts: Idiom's Delight by Suzanne Brock, and Karma Wilson's book for children, Bear Snores On, illustrated by Jane Chapman. (Idiom's Delight is out of print, but you can find copies online at places like .)
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9:24AM Dec-13-08
| kay koch
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'as far as possible'
Growing up in central Illinois my mother often used thisexpression when bathing when she didn' have time to undress completely – wash down as far of possible and wash up possible.
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9:41AM Dec-13-08
| Erik
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I have always interpreted the definition of canvassing a neighborhood, from the context, as "covering", as in a canvas drop cloth. So "we've canvassed that area" would be similar to "we have covered that area." I believe the term is used to denote a police investigation or search, like casting a net over an area.
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12:20PM Dec-13-08
| RConnell
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Possible is actually a noun having to do with the bathing limitations in the old days of not having running water in the house. Here is the definition of a "birdbath": "First you wash as far down as possible, then you wash as far up as possible, then you wash 'Possible' ".
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5:44PM Dec-13-08
| martha
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Thanks for these stories about "possible," ya'll. And be sure to check out Matt's similar story
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8:09AM Dec-14-08
| Grant Barrett
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Thanks, everyone. Good stuff. Nice to see that there's a more solid answer to be had. And "birdbath" used in this way is new to me.
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10:35AM Dec-14-08
| Grant Barrett
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Mona tried to post this but had a problem:
Back in the early 80's, I worked on a medical floor in a hospital. One of my duties was to give bedbaths to my elderly female patients. On occaision, when it was time to wash the "private" area, they would say to me, "Oh I'll take care of possible." Being only 18 years old, I was clueless to what they were referring, I asked some of the veteran nurses on the staff what "possible" was. They laughed and said, well, you know, sometimes it's possible and sometimes it's not possible. So, there you go. "Possible" in the form of a noun.
Mona
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8:22AM Dec-15-08
| Andre
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I just heard your discussion on a historic moment, and it is funny. I have heard this discussion on two different shows in recent history.:-) You both mentioned that it was across in Britain that there is the silent h but, some of your neighbours to the the north also do this.
I have lived in several regions in Canada and was taught that with a silent h you precede the h with an and if it isn't silent you use a. Another word pronounced in some Canadian areas with a silent h is hour, of course in many Newfoundland regions the h is dropped in one place to be added in another, thus ham and eggs becomes, 'am and heggs.
One final note I love listening tou your show and learning about words, one of my favourite books in my youth was "The Joy of Lex"
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8:41PM Dec-15-08
| martha
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Thanks, Andre! That's the Adrian Room book, right?
And 'am and HEGGS? Really?
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12:46PM Dec-16-08
| Richard Robinson
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Regarding “a” vs. “an” preceding a word beginning with the letter “h”, in the mid and late 1950s my mother was a(n) high school English teacher (meaning she taught the language, spelling, literature and writing class, not that she taught the English language). Naturally, she drilled the Rules into me as I was growing up. Things like “i before e except after c” or that adverbs, telling how or why must always end in “ly”.
One of the rules she taught in the local high school here in southern California, and drilled into me at home, was “an” was correct when preceding a word beginning with the letter “h”. I recall no exceptions to this rule, no matter how awkward it might sound. All my life (I’m in my mid 60s) I’ve written “an happy person” even if I would speak “A happy person". It was The English Teacher’s Law.
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2:02PM Dec-16-08
| Nancy Kreile
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When I was a kid, our family called flip flops "beachwalkers". None of my friends used this term and I felt so dorky (they used cool words like "thongs" and "zoris").
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7:38PM Dec-16-08
| flashart
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My mother used to jokingly refer to these types of baths as "whore's baths" when in private, but in public would refer to them as the more politically correct "bird baths".
As far as canvas goes, it was always my interpretation of "canvassing an area" was in reference to the way an artists canvas is stretched to cover the frame, not only to the edge, but even around the back which really means it is covered. This might have also derived from canvas boats which needed to be covered completely (no holes at all) in order to maintain its watertight integrity. These make far more sense to me than the offerings on the podcast, even though they are probably more correct. As I stated I have nothing to offer for proof.
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9:09PM Dec-16-08
| Puncuk
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Regarding the pair of jeans question, I had heard that the original pantaloons consisted of two separate garments for the legs that would be fastened together when worn on the body, thus making a 'pair' of pants or trousers and later jeans in modern usage. I always figured the same logic applied to a pair of scissors – two blades that might be separated but actually only work when used as a pair.
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10:06AM Dec-19-08
| Andre
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martha said:
Thanks, Andre! That’s the Adrian Room book, right?
And ‘am and HEGGS? Really?
The Joy of Lex was written by Gyles Brandreth my dad must of bought it the year it came out. I read it from cover to cover several times.
And seriously about the “‘am and heggs”. Newfoundland English has several dialects and was jokingly referred to as Newfinese, since it sounds like a different language than the English that it sprouts from to many outsiders. I was told by friends in Cape Breton, whose dialect is also different, stronger Scottish Gaelic influence, that some Newfoundlanders sound like they are speaking a foreign language.
Besides the migrating h Newfoundland English has other peculiarities that show its heritage. For instance, in my father’s hometown a sore is a gall, fir sap is turpentine or murr, Murres are Turres.
Older family friends were always aunts or uncles no matter whether or not they were in fact related, so you would hear people talking about Aunt Sis, my great grandmother Sarah, or Uncle Art a close family friend. This practice of respect unfortunately like much of Newfoundland English is disappearing.
I would assume that it is the historic isolation of communities that preserved many Old English words and phrases, combine that with an Old Irish Gaelic, Old Scottish Gaelic, Basque and an Archaic French now only spoken (and also dying) in one region of Newfoundland, Port Aux Port Peninsula, you end up with a veritable mixing pot of dialects and phrases not heard outside of Newfoundland. And most Newfoundlanders can recognize each other when they speak and identify pretty accurately where each comes from by the turn of the phrase and accent.
I found this link you may find interesting, as it relates to this. specifically mentioning the -h.
After all this All I have to say is, long may your big jib draw. And sorry for being long winded.
Andre Reid
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8:52AM Dec-21-08
| martha
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One of the rules she taught in the local high school here in southern California, and drilled into me at home, was “an” was correct when preceding a word beginning with the letter “h”. I recall no exceptions to this rule, no matter how awkward it might sound. All my life (I’m in my mid 60s) I’ve written “an happy person” even if I would speak “A happy person”. It was The English Teacher’s Law.
Richard, I'm amazed at this. I wonder if she was using the King James Bible as her guide. I'll never forget my confusion when I first read the part that says "and Esau was an hairy man." How interesting that even now you have that reflex with something like "an happy."
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8:53AM Dec-21-08
| martha
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Nancy, thanks for "beachwalkers." I hadn't heard that one. They were "thongs" in Kentucky, and yes, I'll admit to my own word envy when I heard some out-of-towners talk of "zoris."
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8:56AM Dec-21-08
| martha
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Andre, thanks for this. I'd love to look more deeply into Newfie English. You'll be pleased to know I did once order a "twack" shirt from , but online twacking is about all I've done.
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9:36AM Jan-09-09
| Vickie
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Re: What to call 2 mothers?
Our kids are now 11 and 13, so we struggled with this issue 14 years ago. We didn't want to use Mommy (or Mom) and Mama, because my partner is hard of hearing and she can't see the different when speech-reading (some people call it lip reading). We selected Mommy and Amma. Amma is of course an anagram of Mama. Our older son quickly changed Amma to Ammy, and I have been Ammy ever since. We have found it works well and would love to see other parents adopt it! When the boys were young and someone would ask what an Ammy is, we just said it is a type of mother.
I love the fact that if I heard "Ammy" in a crowded place, I immediately knew it was one of my kids.
Vickie
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9:16PM Jan-09-09
| martha
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<< I love the fact that if I heard “Ammy” in a crowded place, I immediately knew it was one of my kids.
Good point, Vickie!
I'm curious: Do you and your partner consider the term "speech-reading" preferable to "lip reading"?
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10:54AM Jan-15-09
| xheralt
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I've heard the expression that RConnel refes to, but only from a northwestern US acquaintance. It strikes me as old-fashioned modesty taboo, used as a euphemism for the body zone where washing upwards and washing downwards naturally meet.
Speaking of euphemisms, since 'bird' (particularly in this usage of 'bird bath') is a Britishism for 'attractive young woman', is it more or less politically correct to obfuscate reference to a (presumed) whore by attributing (and extending) it to *all* pretty women? While perhaps beyond the scope of what the show discusses, it certainly says something about cultural assumptions behind the use of language. And that attempting to disguise things may do more harm than good.
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2:28PM Jan-30-09
| Wendy in Oregon
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As I mentioned in a separate post, I learned about 'possible' as a Candy Striper. The nurse's instructions for bathing male patients were to start at the head and wash down as far as possible, then start at the feet and wash up as far as possible, then hand him the washcloth and tell HIM to wash possible. What do you want to bet this was a common joke between nurses and patients in military hospitals in WWII? I'd wager that it spread like hotcakes there and has been popping up in various bastardized and confusing forms ever since…
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8:59PM Apr-20-09
| ablestmage
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The first time I heard canvassing was related to either evangelical canvassing, canvassing for neutral informative door-to-door distribution of knowledge, such as whether one is register to vote — not about promotion of a particular party, or in boy/girl scouting for canvassing the neighborhood in regard to fund raisers or good-doing opportunities..
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10:23AM Apr-21-09
| suzme
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Go-Aheads, My Dad was a Navy man and always called flip flops go-aheads. We thought it was a navy slang. You really can't go backwards in them can you?
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2:08PM Apr-21-09
| Jeepien
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Re: Going Commando
The wet-army-underwear-in-the-jungle explanation makes some sense.
Outerwear uniforms in Vietnam, or "jungle fatigues", were made of a fairly fast-drying fabric blend, and were loose fitting and well-ventilated, being designed for the monsoon climate. For example, all eleven pockets had drain holes to prevent filling with water.
GI underwear (olive-drab boxers) were more absorbent than outer layers, and if wet would tend to stay wet, partly due to the fabric, and partly by being shielded from the air by the outer pants.
I can't say I actually heard that "commando" usage while in the Army, but then again, I was in the Signal Corps, not the Infantry, so I tended to get wet less frequently. Still, during the monsoon season, nobody's butt stayed dry.
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5:13PM Apr-21-09
| fotofashion
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I have never heard the term "bird bath" unless it was referring to a shallow bowl for birds to bathe in. Our expression was "spit bath". Kinda crude admittedly but quite descriptive.
That is just about how I felt when I had to wash up that way. :frown:
Beverly A.
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10:41AM Apr-28-09
| johng423
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Here are various ways I have heard the word "thong" used: (1) beach slippers, AKA flip-flops, go-aheads; (2) skimpy underwear that barely covers private parts (not usually a topic of conversation in my circles); and my personal favorite, (3) "what Thinatra things".
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10:41PM May-08-09
| stevenz
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An historic.
My take on this has always been that we (can) use "an" before "historic" because the accent is on the second syllable, so the "h" can be swallowed. There are corollaries to this. In French, "liaison" allows pronunciation of a terminal consonant that would not otherwise be pronounced when preceding a word beginning with a vowel. e.g., les ouefs (more than one egg) is pronounced "laze oof" (more or less). But les chiens (more than one dog) is pronounced "lay chien." New Englanders put an R between a word ending in a vowel and one beginning with a vowel. E.g., John Kennedy might have said (and almost surely did), "the missiles in Cubar are a threat."
So "an historic" is a way to merge the words without an abrupt intake of breath to then hiss the "his." It's a liaison of sorts and we should be quite comfortable as pronuciation shortcut. We don't say "an hippy" because "hippy" is stressed on the first syllable so the liaison isn't necessary. I think "an historic" is fine.
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6:48AM May-09-09
| Glenn
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Post edited 3:33PM – May-09-09 by Glenn
*An humane treatment? *An humongous disaster? *An horrific development?
What rules could force or allow *”an historical event” but not also *”an hysterical response”?
I, for one, don’t typically take in a breath between “a” and “historic.” And most people say “a holistic treatment” without any trouble.
I have no issue with dialectic differences, such as “Anner and I”, but they are rather more consistent than the one you theorize here. Am I claiming a heretical ( not *”an heretical”) view? This “an historic” thing really defies natural explanation, since nobody does this thing in any similar phonetic, articulatory, or grammatical context that I have seen. Is this a hyperbolic statement?
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7:46PM May-10-09
| martha
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Johng: Ouch!
Sbranca, I have to admit that "an historic" is easier to say. Wonder what the "proper" pronunciation will be in 100 years? Are we trending toward "an"?
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9:04AM May-11-09
| Glenn
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Post edited 3:20PM – May-11-09 by Glenn
Martha, as host, always quick to supply a(n) hospitable response and promote a(n) harmonious atmosphere.
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4:20AM May-12-09
| stevenz
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Perhaps there could be an episode on consistency – or lack thereof – in language usage.
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4:43AM May-12-09
| Glenn
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Post edited 1:21PM – May-12-09 by Glenn
Perhaps we are misunderstanding each other. We may even be agreeing on the central point, although maybe not some others. Allow me to clarify my position.
I don’t have any problem with using “an” with “historic” if a person truly starts “historic” with a vowel sound (’istoric) for whatever reason: historic, ease of pronunciation, or otherwise. That does follow as a dialectic pronunciation and the use of “an” is a natural effect — consider British “a herb” (with aspiration) and American “an herb” (pronounced ‘erb, without aspiration).
However, more often in my experience with “an historic” I hear people following “an” with full, or even exaggerated, aspiration. It seems studied and unnatural even to the person doing it. Somehow, they think it SHOULD be that way, and they are forcing their speaking to do that unnaturally. “Historic” is the only such word they treat that way.
When I’ve had the opportunity, I have asked folks after they do it. They admit it sounds bad and feels unnatural to pronounce, but they think it is “correct.” Some think it is more sophisticated or more educated. They aren’t very sure why they think that, or where they picked it up.
It is this use of “an” followed by fully aspirated “historic” that I find so perplexing and inexplicable. I support anyone whose dialect pronounces ‘istoric and uses “an”. Likewise folks who say “hindividual” who use “a”. To me, these things are consistent within the context.
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9:31AM May-12-09
| Ron Draney
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I'm an American speaker, subspecies West Coast, and I do say "an historic". I also use "an" before other H-words with unstressed initial syllables: "an hysterical outburst", "an heuristic algorithm", "an hospitable greeting".
I don't pronounce the H in "herb", but I do in some of its derivatives, and it's certainly "a herbivore" but "an herbivorous species" for me.
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10:00AM May-12-09
| Glenn
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Post edited 9:46PM – May-12-09 by Glenn
Here are some credible, public examples of three different pronunciations: “an ‘istoric”; “a historic”; and “an historic”. The only one that confuses me is “an historic” with the aspirated “h”.
I believe it was the “an historic” aspirated pronunciation at question in the broadcast, although all three pronunciations are discussed. I further think I am agreeing with both Grant and Martha as they express their opinions in the broadcast. But, it may be that Martha has changed her mind on this based on her post above.
It may also be that we were misunderstanding each other on the pivotal point of aspiration because of the limitations of the text medium and notation.
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