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9:08PM Jul-19-10
| Grant Barrett
| | San Diego, California | |
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It's been said that the most beautiful combination of words in English is "cellar door." But why?
By the way, after this caller raised the question, Grant did even more digging on the topic. The result: He wrote an article about it that appeared in the New York Times.
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4:07PM Jul-20-10
| Heimhenge
| | New River, AZ, USA | |
| Member | posts 312 | |
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Grant & Martha,
OK, so I listened to the podcast. "Cellar door" has got to be a meme. Its meaning is not beautiful, nor is its sound. In fact, I had never heard of that two-word combo described as being beautiful. I liked Martha's suggestions of "lullaby" and even "microchip." Guess it has something to do with how the word rolls off the tongue.
I read somewhere (don't recall the source) that the single most "beautiful" word in the English language was "illumination." I like that. It does indeed roll off the tongue. Plus, it has a beautiful meaning as well. And then there's the additional meaning, from the pre-Gutenberg era, of literally making a word beautiful by the addition of color or gold or silver leaf. I was unable to locate the source online, but I really do like that word.
Kinda' on the same topic, I always felt the word "cacophony" was somehow evocative of its meaning. It is an ugly (sounding) word.
Interestingly, none of these words makes Robert Beard's Top 100 List.
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12:43AM Jul-21-10
| Ron Draney
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I have to wonder if the supposed beauty of "cellar door" is because it reminds someone of "celadon" (a type of gray-green glazed pottery) or some other word with real-world associations to something beautiful. Like "celesta" or something.
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3:41AM Jul-21-10
| Glenn
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In the category of words with repulsive meaning but a beautiful sound, I nominate colostomy.
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6:28AM Jul-21-10
| Jackie
| | Spring Green, WI | |
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Glenn, I'll see your colostomy and add diarrhea.
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8:10AM Jul-21-10
| Jessidney
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Post edited 8:11AM – Jul-21-10 by Jessidney
The source of the words cellar door being beautiful might very well have come from a French person because the words cellar door sounds eerily like seul l'amour or seul adore. Which means only love in French.
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1:01PM Jul-21-10
| GuyInMilwaukee
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I always assumed (not sure where I read/heard this but it goes way back) is that the beauty of the words "Cellar Door" is when they are spoken with an refined English accent. I'm sure you all are sounding it out now in your best James Mason/Laurence Olivier voice. To me I always thought that it was a thing of beauty when spoken in that way. Excellent topic.
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2:04PM Jul-21-10
| Kaa
| | Atlanta, Georgia | |
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Words that sound beautiful, huh?
susurrus
murmur
mellifluous
ululation
eukalele
Walla-Walla (because it just feels good to say it)
cessation
There's a pattern, here, that's not all that hard to see.
One I thought of is amusing because it's from the movie "Protocol" with Goldie Hawn. She relates the story of her and her friend/cousin(?) going to see "Baba Noctananda" who was an old hermit who lived blah blah blah.
Baba Noctananda. Baba Noctananda. Say it a few times.
What makes a word "beautiful"? Is beauty in the mind of the speaker?
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3:33PM Jul-21-10
| Heimhenge
| | New River, AZ, USA | |
| Member | posts 312 | |
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If it's just the "sound," then why "cellar door" and not "seller door" or "salad or" or (fill in your own homophones)?
Now there's another example of an "ugly" word … "homophones" … I don't like the (nudge nudge) connotations there.
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7:19PM Jul-21-10
| Phil
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Homophones is such a beautiful word though. It sounds like a name brand for a cell phone. Or maybe some manly steel and construction yellow package. Call it 'HombrePhone'.
I may be biased. But I like to think that the beauty of a word is both in it's sound and the images it brings up.
Vacation
Home
Fun
Lunch
Love
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8:03PM Jul-21-10
| Heimhenge
| | New River, AZ, USA | |
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You know, now that you mention it, I guess it does sorta' have an assonance to it. Get "homophone" … the first cell phone really designed for our species.
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9:22AM Jul-22-10
| dilettante
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And of course: "It's got a sort of woody quality about it. Gorn. Gorn. Much better than 'newspaper' or 'litterbin'."
(http://orangecow.org/pythonet/…..odytin.htm)
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1:38PM Jul-22-10
| jasonbrody
| | SoCal | |
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A contestant on the 1950's TV show "You Bet Your Life" hosted by Groucho Marx was named Cellar Door. She explained her parents thought they were the most beautiful words in the English language. It was one of the few times Groucho was speechless.
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2:54PM Jul-22-10
| telemath
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I've always liked the flowing reduplication of "borborygmus".
dilettante said:
And of course: "It's got a sort of woody quality about it. Gorn. Gorn. Much better than 'newspaper' or 'litterbin'."
(http://orangecow.org/pythonet/…..odytin.htm)
As long as we're Barely Sequitur, The Vestibules did a skit about words that are just fun to say: Bulbous Bouffant
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7:40PM Jul-25-10
| Ron Draney
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I know Martha expressly excluded "butterfly" (along with "love" and "mother") when asking what words we listeners find beautiful in sound, but I couldn't resist the opportunity to share this story:
A group of students at an international university were sitting around one day when the conversation got round to whether the nature of a thing determines the nature of the word used to refer to it. The American suggested "butterfly" and said that the name resembles the creature: colorful, ephemeral, carefree.
The French student agreed, adding that "papillon" is also a beautiful word, no doubt because it names a beautiful thing, and the Spaniard added that the same was true of "mariposa". The Italian threw in his own opinion that "farfalla" was transcendently appealing.
With that, the German student huffed once, folded his arms, and growled "und vat is wrong mit 'Schmetterling'?"
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11:45PM Jul-26-10
| sara
| | san diego, ca | |
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GuyInMilwaukee said:
I always assumed (not sure where I read/heard this but it goes way back) is that the beauty of the words "Cellar Door" is when they are spoken with an refined English accent. I'm sure you all are sounding it out now in your best James Mason/Laurence Olivier voice. To me I always thought that it was a thing of beauty when spoken in that way. Excellent topic.
As I am reading this (Harry Potter playing in the back ground, read by Jim dale) I hear "cellar door" in a semi posh English accent, you know it doesn't sound that different than when I say it.
One of my favorites is "scruples". On the other end, a lot of people hate the word "moist".
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9:35AM Jul-27-10
| dilettante
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Here's another allusion to the beauty of "cellar door", courtesy of the Tufts University Center for Cognitive Studies (and Bill Griffith):
http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/i…..nguage.pdf
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7:30PM Jul-27-10
| Dalliance
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I rather like the sound of zephyr. The word is onomatopoetic with a nice soft ffff in the middle. I also like the word staccato.
Cellar door has got to be a joke from somewhere back in time that has gotten to be misused.
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5:59AM Jul-28-10
| Amie D.
| | Indianapolis | |
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I've been thinking about this a lot this since listening to the minicast, and have determined that "hullabaloo" is a particularly beautiful word (to my ears, at least). I like all of the sounds in it and their arrangement.
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11:43AM Sep-20-10
| Toby
| | Dallas | |
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I'm a little late responding to this topic, but my daughter used to love to say aluminum anemone when she was younger. Inane, but beautiful.
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2:23PM Sep-26-10
| natatorium
| | Milwaukee, WI | |
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Mr. and Mrs. Concrete hired a ratcatcher who was particularly fond of their "wainscotting."
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7:06AM Oct-06-10
| Garry Shirts
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I don't think it is possible to separate the sound of the word from the meaning of the word. I don't think Grant or Martha were separating the meaning from the sound as they claimed in the discussion of "cellar door" as the most beautiful words in the English language. Why would Grant ask how the words "cellar door" were spelled if the meaning weren't important? If meaning isn't important, then 'seller door" would be just as beautiful as "cellar door". Andy Warhol asked us to look at everyday objects without looking at their "meaning" or function. But I think meaning is so closely tied to the sound that it isn't possible to separate them without super human effort i.e., say the words a hundred times and then they may lose their meaning. But I don't think it is possible to separate the meaning from the sound when you only say it once or a dozen times. I don't think "vomit" will ever be a candidate for the most beautiful word not because of how it sounds but because we can't separate the word from the sound. I think jazz musicians understand this principle. That's why they scat sing with nonsense words so we'll listen to the sound and not the meaning.
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11:27AM Oct-06-10
| Garry Shirts
| | Garry | |
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A Way with words Cellar door
I understand Grant has done some research on this topic. I haven’t listened to what he has to say but I’ve done some research on my own and discovered the origin of the belief that the words “cellar door” are the most beautiful word in the English language.
The son of an influential author was reading his deceased father’s diary. After a 15 page description of his father’s first date with his new girl friend, who would become his wife of fifty-three years, he found a verbatim description of his father’s last visit to his psychiatrist who was treating him for writer’s block stemming from an overwhelming sense of inferiority. Here is a copy of the transcript from the father’s diary:
Me: I have something to tell you doctor.
Dr. Burkle: Before we get distracted, I would like to continue our conversation about your recurring dream.
Me: OK. It’s relevant to what I have to say. I had the dream again last night but it was different this time. As before, I descended the stairs with a small key in my hand. When I reached the bottom, I inserted the key into the lock but it turned without engaging the lock. I went down another set of stairs with the same result, another and another until I was ready to give up. And then doctor, the most marvelous thing happened, I descended the last set of stairs and as I approached the cellar door I could see that it appeared different than all the others. It glistened like grass after a summer rain. It was so beautiful. The key I was holding grew and grew as I descended the stairs . By the time I reached the bottom of the stairs, it had grown to fit the lock perfectly. I held my breath inserted the key into the lock and gently turned it. The cellar door opened as if by magic.
It still sends shivers up my spine when I think about it. (end of diary entry)
The father thanked the psychiatrist went home and finished the novel he was working on and became one of America’s most influential authors and teachers. He started each semester by telling his students, “the most beautiful words in the English language are: Cellar Door.” They spread the word until everyone in the world knew that the words “Cellar Door” were the most beautiful words in the English language.
His son reported that the only request his father made upon his death was that he be buried with the gift his wife gave him on their wedding night: a gold chain with a key attached.
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1:14PM Oct-06-10
| EmmettRedd
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Garry, it's a pretty story but it sounds like an urban legend. The only detail we have is Dr. Burkle's name. Dialog in diaries seems out of place–narrative is more likely. No name of the novel is mentioned. If he "became one of America's most influential authors and teachers" why doesn't the story reveal his name?
When something triggers me to think it is an urban legend, I am usually right.
Until I get some more definitive details, consider me skeptical.
Emmett
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9:43AM Oct-07-10
| Garry Shirts
| | Garry | |
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Post edited 3:23PM – Oct-07-10 by Garry Shirts
Emmett:
I wrote that story. I got to thinking how Freud would have a field day with the claim that the words "Cellar Door" are the most beautiful words in the world. So instead of making the point in an explicit fashion, I wrote the story. Sorry, I probably should have given more clues that I intended it to be an allegory.
Garry
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6:14AM Oct-20-10
| Agnes
| | Warsaw, Poland | |
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Back in my university times I took a course in phonology and phonetics by Professor Lukszyn, a Russian linguist working at Warsaw University, Poland, and I remember a lecture about some research (I don't remember whether his or someone else's) on the perception of sounds. As I remember it, the sounds that are perceived as nice and pleasant are those produced at the front of the mouth cavity, this is why many people like the sound of such words as "lullaby". On the other hand, sounds produced at the back of the mouth, like /h/ or /g/, are perceived as unpleasant ones.
Coming back to the controversial "cellar door", I guess in can sound really nice if you pronounce it with British non-rhotic standard and not so nice if you pronounce it in a rhotic variety of English
Agnes
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7:20AM Oct-20-10
| Garry Shirts
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Thanks Agnes. I didn't know that rhotic meant so I looked it up:
"English pronunciation can be divided into two main accent groups: A rhotic (pronounced /ˈroʊtɨk/, sometimes /ˈrɒtɨk/) speaker pronounces the letter R in hard; a non-rhotic speaker does not pronounce it in hard. That is, rhotic speakers pronounce /r/ in all positions, while non-rhotic speakers pronounce /r/ only if it is followed by a vowel sound in the same phrase or prosodic unit (see "linking and intrusive R")."
Since both "r"s are followed by a vowel, wouldn't the pronunciation be the same?
Also, I just read Grant's article in the NYT Magazine. When he discussed it on the radio, I got the impression that he thought it was because of the meaning of the words rather than how they sound that qualified the words as the most beautiful in the world. But in the article it is clear that he he has analyzed the assumption from many different points of view including the euphonious . It seems to me that the words are symbols with heavy sexual overtones which he did not consider. Of course, I am a psychologist so a can of beans has heavy sexual overtones.
Garry
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8:09AM Oct-20-10
| Agnes
| | Warsaw, Poland | |
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Hello, Garry,
As for rhoticity, this is something you get to know when you study English as a foreign language I don't think native speakers need to think about it
You are right that if /r/ is followed by a vowel sound, it is pronounced even in non-rhotic dialects of English, but in "cellar door" the first /r/ is followed by /d/ and the second is the end of our phrase, so I assume they wouldn't be pronounced in British standard, which is the variety I'm trying to use
But my main point is that there has been some research looking for some universal appeal of different sounds and I would love to learn if anyone else is doing this.
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11:34AM Oct-20-10
| Garry Shirts
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I would be interested in that research as well. Perhaps it would answer if, in fact, there is a universal appeal at all or does it totally depend on the individual's experience with one's language and culture. Also, does it vary across cultures and languages. I read many years ago that "M" was the most pleasing sound. I hope it's true since my kids are named Mary, Martha, Mitch, Matthew and Michael.
(just kidding about the names)
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