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8:37AM
Feb-21-11
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Grant Barrett
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More and more college students are getting pregnant — with burrito babies. Grant talks about new terms for "a full stomach" and other examples of campus slang. Also, is it safe to play on the macadam? And: overegging the pudding, what it means to be gobsmacked, the difference between who and whom, apostrophe placement, how to pronounce coup de grâce, and the embarrassing results when a smartphone mistakenly autocorrects text messages.
This episode first aired February 20, 2011. Listen here:
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Remember the classic children's story "Where the Wild Thongs Are"? (We didn't think so.) That's just one of the autocorrect horror stories that can happen with smartphone auto-mis-corrections. Martha and Grant discuss several more.
If someone is gobsmacked, they're totally surprised. The term may come from the same Gaelic root that gave us the Everlasting Gobstopper.
Should the sign on the boys' bathroom at a school read "Boy's Room" or "Boys' Room"? The hosts clarify where to put the apostrophe.
"A fifth-year senior"? That term is so 2007. These days, college students just refer to that extra year of school as taking a victory lap. Grant shares this and other examples of campus slang collected by University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill professor Connie Eble.
Our Quiz Guy John Chaneski has a game of demonyms. What do you call someone from a certain place? If you're from Cambridge, for example, you're a Cantabrigian.
If someone has overegged the pudding, they've overstated the case. This may explain why a lawyer from Lawrence, Kansas, found the phrase in a judicial opinion.
A motivational Chinese idiom translates as "ride the cow, look for the horse."
Are the names Aaron and Erin pronounced the same? A bicoastal listener insists they should sound different. A longer discussion about Erin vs. Aaron is on the Straight Dope message board.
The word sic, meaning "thus" in Latin, is placed in the text when an author knowingly quotes a misspelled word or otherwise incorrect statement.
A native of Southern Pennsylvania has always used the term macadam in place of asphalt. Martha traces the word from an old gravel road to the modern day tarmac.
A Japanese idiom, referring to someone who takes credit for another's work, translates as "doing sumo in someone else's underwear."
If you say, "The worm has turned," it means you've lost patience. Grant and Martha explain that this expression goes back to the old proverb "Tread on a worm and it will turn."
More and more college students are getting pregnant with burrito babies. Grant explains that that this slang term simply means that someone's stomach is full from a hefty meal, which is also known as a food baby.
What is the proper use and pronunciation of the French term coup de grâce? Grant and Martha explain how the term has been twisted, both in pronunciation and meaning.
How can you tell the difference between who and whom? A listener shares a chant learned in grade school to remember the proper usage.
Grant shares a bit of military humor related to cumshaw, the art of procuring what you need in ingenious ways: "There is only one thief in the army. Everyone else is just trying to get their stuff back."
You know the feeling when something hurts so good? A massage therapist looks for a term that describes this mix of pleasure and anguish. Sensanguish? Hedonalgia, maybe?
Grant shares Tom Swifties sent in by listeners: "Aw, shucks, I dropped the toothpaste," Tom said crestfallenly, and "I've located the experts," Tom said profoundly.
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Read the original blog post. |
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2:27AM
Feb-22-11
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Ron Draney
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We're big on those Aaron/Erin vowel mergers over on Usenet. Even have sets of abbreviations to refer to them: CIC for cot is caught vs CINC for cot is not caught, PIP for pin is pen vs PINP for pin is not pen, and the biggie: MIMIM for Mary is marry is merry vs MINMINM for Mary is not marry is not merry vs MIMBMID for Mary is marry but merry is different. There's also horse is/is not hoarse but for some reason there are no abbreviations in common use for that one.
"Aaron" and "Erin" are related to that last one but not entirely synonymous with it. Also unrelated to CIC/CINC is that some people use different vowels in "Ronnie" (a form of my name that thankfully I seldom hear) and "Rani", which I noticed when a young woman from India with that name joined our office. As a native SoCalifornian, I'm theoretically not supposed to make any of these vowel distinctions, but it seems I've been influenced by all the radio announcers I grew up listening to and have an accent that doesn't actually indicate where I'm from.
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12:44PM
Feb-22-11
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eedoc
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On the subject of auto-correct, I was recently using the note pad function of my iPad to note an address in La Jolla. Living in San Diego, I am well aware that La Jolla is one of the most expensive real estate markets in the country, and it appears that the programmers at Apple Computers are also aware of this. My iPad auto-corrected "La Jolla" to "La Moola."
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7:03AM
Feb-23-11
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MarcNaimark
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Re "boy's room". I would not use any apostrophe at all. For me, it's the "boys room", a room for boys. On Top Chef, they just added an apostrophe to "Judges Table", making it "Judges' Table". I'm sure people were complaining, but for me, there's nothing wrong with "Judges Table".
Am I wrong?
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9:12AM
Feb-23-11
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Ron Draney
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They seemed to be leading to it in the show, but Grant and Martha never really weighed in on whether BOYS with no apostrophe would be correct on its own, i.e., without ROOM following it. My feeling is that nobody would have a problem with it in that form.
Don't know if the signs are still there as the business has changed hands several times since I last visited, but one restaurant I used to go to had doors labeled GENTLEMEN and LADIE'S. I think that belongs under the heading of "worst of all possible worlds".
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2:37PM
Feb-23-11
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MarcNaimark
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Re "rentals" for "parentals", I imagine it comes from "parental units". No?
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6:10AM
Feb-24-11
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Glenn
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Post edited 7:29AM – Feb-24-11 by Glenn
MarcNaimark said:
Re "boy's room". I would not use any apostrophe at all. For me, it's the "boys room", a room for boys. On Top Chef, they just added an apostrophe to "Judges Table", making it "Judges' Table". I'm sure people were complaining, but for me, there's nothing wrong with "Judges Table".
Am I wrong?
While I think that a door with
BOYS
alone would be fine, I don't agree about
BOYS ROOM
I think the apostrophe after the S is required in that case. To permit BOYS without apostrophe would suggest the analogs
MEN ROOM
WOMEN ROOM
Neither of these works. The same applies to JUDGES (alone) or JUDGES' TABLE, but not JUDGES TABLE.
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9:36AM
Feb-24-11
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Ron Draney
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And now I'm reminded of the album that Lyle Lovett called "Joshua Judges Ruth".
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11:35AM
Feb-24-11
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iduckles
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Love the show, and I enjoy listening every week. I wanted to take issue with the discussion of the word "Ginger" as a label for red-headed freckled folk. In the show Grant suggested that the popularization of this term in America (particularly at colleges and universities) was due to the Harry Potter books. I think this is mistaken. I have read the books, and I even have the British editions of the first four, and I really don't recall the Weasely (sp?) family ever described as ginger. It is very possible that the word ginger appeared as an adjective ("ginger hair" or something like that) but I don't ever recall them being referred to as "Gingers."
I think the real source for the popularization of this term, particularly among the youth, is the show South Park. Episode 11 of season 9 is called "Ginger Kids" and deals with Cartman's efforts to exterminate all Gingers because they have no souls. This episode premiered in 2005 and was the first time I had ever heard the term, and I am quite a fan of Harry Potter having read the books multiple times since at least 2000.
Anyway, just wanted to throw in my two cents!
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7:05PM
Feb-24-11
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EmmettRedd
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Post edited 7:05PM – Feb-24-11 by EmmettRedd
Here is a link for attire to accomodate a fake burrito/food baby.
Emmett
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7:16PM
Feb-24-11
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Arkholt
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Loved the show! I really liked John's word quiz, but I was a bit disappointed that he didn't mention Liverpudlians (the natives of Liverpool, of course).
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8:55PM
Feb-24-11
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Ron Draney
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Ah yes, the demonyms! As synchronicity would have it, I was already working my way through a book of them entitled Labels for Locals, and had recently learned that many of my ancestors were once "Buddies". (That's what you call someone from Paisley, in Scotland.)
In my lifetime, I've been an Angeleno, a Seattleite, a Silver Citizen, and am now a Phoenician, none of which is a strictly regular form. (I'm not sure what I was for the three years that I lived in Douglas, Arizona. Probably just a Gringo.)
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9:08AM
Feb-25-11
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AnMa
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Post edited 10:32AM – Feb-25-11 by AnMa
In addressing the pronunciation of coup de grace, the caller brought up the issue of "hyperforeignisms."
There are several that I hear all the time on the news and they really get under my skin.
1. Punjab – the native pronunciation is [pʌn'dʒäb] (first syllable rhymes with English pun) or ['pändʒäb]. The traditional English pronunciation is something like [pʌn'dʒɑb] or [pʌn'dʒɒb]. But newscasters are hyperforeignizing the u in the first syllable and making it ['pʊndʒɑb], or even ['pʊnʒɑb], which leads me to –
2. The letter J in Indian words and names. In Indian languages, the J represents a sound very much like in English judge. However, when I hear American newscasters pronounce an Indian word, such as the name Rajiv, which is natively pronounced ['rädʒiv] or [rə'dʒiv], they almost always make the J sound French — [rə'ʒiv]. That "French J" sound doesn't exist in Indian languages and it drives me crazy to hear it crammed in there.
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9:15AM
Feb-25-11
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Glenn
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The same thing happens with Beijing. It sounds close to "Bay Jingle" without the L. But most Americans pronounce it with the French J.
I work with a man called Raj. I pronounce his name like the start of Roger, sounding like Rodge. I've had other (non-Indian) colleagues correct me to the French j sound. I simply advise them to check with Raj.
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10:34AM
Feb-25-11
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AnMa
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Glenn said:
The same thing happens with Beijing. It sounds close to "Bay Jingle" without the L. But most Americans pronounce it with the French J.
Actually, my understanding is that it is more like "Pay Ching," in which the consonants are unaspirated, which to some English speakers can sound a little like "Bay Jing" if they're not listening closely.
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11:27AM
Feb-25-11
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Glenn
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Post edited 11:56AM – Feb-25-11 by Glenn
You are completely right that these Chinese consonants are both unvoiced and unaspirated. They are unvoiced (like P and CH) and unaspirated (like B and J). But since English has no such phonemes (unvoiced, unaspirated) in such a phonetic context, we tend to follow the Pinyin transcription spelling and pronounce them as "Beijing" would suggest. The actual phonetics show both similarities and differences regardless of which English representation you pick. (English does use these sounds as allophones in certain limited phonetic contexts, but native English speakers would find it quite difficult to produce them in the same phonetic contexts in which they appear in Chinese, such as in the word Beijing).
My comment should only be taken as far as the observation that the French J pronunciation is totally unfounded, and a hyperforeignism. Clearly, either English J or CH would be closer than the French J, which is much further from the Chinese sound.
As a side note, there are wise reasons to choose B and J to represent these Chinese sounds in English, rather than P and CH. Chinese also has unvoiced and ASPIRATED consonants that are quite close to English P and CH — but the Chinese versions have a heavier aspiration. Since that is the case, it is prudent to reserve P and CH for the ASPIRATED Chinese consonants, and focus on the similarity of the UNASPIRATED consonants to B and J, even though the English counterparts are voiced whereas the Chinese ones are not. Other older Chinese transcription systems, such as Wade-Giles, would use P and P' and CH and CH', where the apostrophe indicates the aspiration. These systems were arcane for the uninitiated. At least in the case of Beijing, Pinyin is more intuitively correct for English speakers. However Pinyin might well have fallen off the path when it comes to the X (palatalized SH), Q (palatalized CH), ZH (retroflex J), and C (aspirated TS).
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1:20PM
Feb-25-11
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AnMa
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Glenn said:
As a side note, there are wise reasons to choose B and J to represent these Chinese sounds in English, rather than P and CH. Chinese also has unvoiced and ASPIRATED consonants that are quite close to English P and CH — but the Chinese versions have a heavier aspiration. Since that is the case, it is prudent to reserve P and CH for the ASPIRATED Chinese consonants, and focus on the similarity of the UNASPIRATED consonants to B and J, even though the English counterparts are voiced whereas the Chinese ones are not. Other older Chinese transcription systems, such as Wade-Giles, would use P and P' and CH and CH', where the apostrophe indicates the aspiration. These systems were arcane for the uninitiated. At least in the case of Beijing, Pinyin is more intuitively correct for English speakers.
I understand the reasoning, but I disagree with it. In both I.P.A. and in English and most languages that use the Roman alphabet, letters such as B, D, G, etc., are almost always representative of voiced phonemes, and I think that it is a huge mistake for Pinyin to diverge from that. Unaspirated P is just not B, plain and simple. In that respect, I think the idea behind Wade-Giles is much more sound, if "arcane" in execution. They should have used a scheme such is usually used for Indian and other similar languages — unaspirated K, CH, T, P and aspirated KH, CHH, TH, and PH.
Frankly, the spelling "Beijing" annoys the hell out of me, not only because I think it's just wrong, but also because it leads to far more mispronunciation than a spelling like "Peiching" or "Payching" would.
In any case, I think that English should have preserved the English word "Peking" regardless of what the Chinese decide for their own language.
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1:28PM
Feb-25-11
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AnMa
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that to me — as far as transliteration is concerned — getting the voiced/unvoiced parameter wrong is worse than getting the aspirated/unaspirated parameter wrong.
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3:38AM
Feb-26-11
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tromboniator
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Post edited 3:39AM – Feb-26-11 by tromboniator
Why is it that we try so hard to get Beijing right when we make no effort for Wien, München, Paris, Lisboa, Moskva, etc.?
Peter
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8:24PM
Feb-27-11
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kellikb
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To add to the conversation about what to call the "hurts so good" feeling when getting a massage…. I am a student in a massage therapy program and my instructor calls that "exquisite pain."
I really like the "Hu-so-go" abbreviation for hurts so good – no matter what you call it, it feels great!
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11:53PM
Feb-27-11
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tromboniator
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2:12PM
Mar-06-11
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Russell
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The discussion of "Erin" versus "Aaron" made me think of a cool story I stumbled across recently.
I'm doing research for a graphic novel called "The Boy's Book of Swashbuckling Jews," and I came across the amazing tale of Jim Levy, the Irish-Jewish gambler and gunslinger. In 1877 he was in a famous fight with Charlie Harrison in Cheyenne, Wyoming. The stories about what precipitated the shootout are confused and contradictory, but many believe it was a slur hurled at Levy. One historian claims that newspaper accounts were unclear whether Harrison called Levy a "Son of Aaron" (a Jew) or a "Son of Erin" an Irishman. At any rate, though Harrison shot first, it was Levy who administered the Coup De Gras.
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6:52AM
Apr-04-11
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Jazyk
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In Portuguese we have a saying similar to the Chinese one with horses and cows. It is Quem não tem cão caça com gato (He who has no dog hunts with a cat).
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8:35PM
Jul-01-11
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Lea
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Arkholt said:
Loved the show! I really liked John's word quiz, but I was a bit disappointed that he didn't mention Liverpudlians (the natives of Liverpool, of course).
The residents of Halifax, Nova Scotia are Haligonians.
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1:22PM
Sep-19-11
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SoCalEd
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Post edited 1:26PM – Sep-19-11 by SoCalEd
kellikb said:
To add to the conversation about what to call the "hurts so good" feeling when getting a massage…. I am a student in a massage therapy program and my instructor calls that "exquisite pain."
I really like the "Hu-so-go" abbreviation for hurts so good – no matter what you call it, it feels great!
I like soregasm
http://www.urbandictionary.com…..id=1871194
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1:26PM
Sep-19-11
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tromboniator
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1:28PM
Sep-19-11
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SoCalEd
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tromboniator said:
Nice!
And welcome.
Thanks. Was having trouble with the URL link for a while there!
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