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I'm Not Hanging Noodles From Your Ears.

Chicken Scratches and Creaky Voice (full episode)


Read the original blog post.

UserPost

7:18AM
Feb-21-09


Grant Barrett

Brooklyn, New York

Admin

posts 1040

Post edited 2:17AM – Feb-25-09 by Grant Barrett


Does your handwriting look like chicken scratches, calligraphy, or maybe something in between? Martha and Grant discuss the state of penmanship, the phenomenon linguists call creaky voice, euphemisms for going to the bathroom, and the New England expression “I hosey that!”

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There’s a new book out about the history of penmanship. It’s called Script & Scribble: The Rise and Fall of Handwriting, by Kitty Burns Florey.

If you want to claim something—say, the front seat of a car or the last piece of cake—what do you say? Dibs? Boney? How about “I hosey that!”? The hosts talk about this New England expression, its possible origins, and its equivalent in other parts of the country.

A caller has a hard time remembering which is correct: “Give the book to my husband and me,” or “Give the book to my husband and I.” Martha offers a sure-fire, quick-and-easy way to know if “husband and I” or “husband me” are right every time.

According to a listener in San Diego, when a DJ plays a great set, he’s said to rinse it.

In honor of the 44th U.S. president, Quiz Guy Greg Pliska offers a word game “Glom-a Obama.” The object: Figure out a series of rhyming two-word phrases by guessing the word to be added to the name “Obama.” For example, if Mr. Obama had been born in one of Japan’s second-largest city, he would be “_____________ Obama.”

“He’s been sick three days hand-running.” Huh? In some parts of the country, “hand running” means “in succession, consecutively.” The hosts muse about the possible origins of this phrase.

One of the Olsen twins does it, some public radio hosts do it, and at least one former U.S. president does it. Grant describes the curious speech trait linguists call “creaky voice.”

A “red letter-day” is a special occasion. Martha explains how this term came to be.

A listener says she and her husband called their unborn child “wohube.” What other noms de fetus are there?

In this week’s installment of Slang This!, a member of the National Puzzlers League tries to separate the real slang terms from the fake ones. Try this one: Which of the following expressions really is a British synonym for the willies, the heebie jeebies or a similar kind of “nervous freakout”? Would that be the belching withers or the screaming abdabs? And which of the following terms is Australian slang for “people from the United States”? Is it septics or songbirds? (The Aussies are all rolling their eyes at this obvious answer.)

If you’re having a conversation with someone, are you speaking with them, speaking to them, talking to them, or talking with them? A caller wonders what differences, if any, exist among all those expressions.

You might have heard Brits say “I’m going to spend a penny” when they have to visit the loo. The hosts discuss the reason for this phrase, and other euphemisms for making a trip to the toilet, such as “I’m going to visit Miss White” and “I’m going to go drop off some friends at the lake.

A caller observes that after moving to Indianapolis, he noticed that many of the locals say the names of commercial enterprises as if they’re plural or possessive, even when they’re not, such as calling Walmart “Walmart’s.” Grant explains the inclination to add the S sound to the names of businesses in casual speech and writing.



Read the original blog post.

9:12AM
Feb-21-09


Matt Holck

Member

posts 82

I'm guessing hand running is related to the hands of a clock,
and running the hands means to constantly work at something across that expanse of time.
"We danced non-stop from 5 to 6:45 hand running"

©

9:54AM
Feb-22-09


gw

Guest

I've heard the creaky voice many times, particularly in advertising. I regard it as an affectation, myself, and an extremely annoying one. To me, it's an attempt to convey casual sophistication, the sort of conceit a college junior might have. Note to advertisers, that's how it comes off in adversitments, too, as faux sophistication.

4:35PM
Feb-22-09


whitekoi

Guest

Post edited 10:44PM – Feb-22-09 by whitekoi


re: creaky voice
Creaky voice drives me nuts! Intuition tells me it is an indication of youth, vulnerability and desire for approval. Can you imagine Hillary Clinton breaking into creaky voice? I can’t. I used to listen to a radio station where they had a contest to determine which woman had the sexiest voice. The most annoying creaky voice always won. Ick.

5:14PM
Feb-22-09


Matt Holck

Member

posts 82

so my friend and I are still taking about the episode while the station break passed
even though the dog's yalling to go

The hatter had brushed dabs of mercury into beaver hats and got the screaming ab dabs in the haberdashery.

http://www.thehatsite.com/felt.html

©

12:31PM
Feb-23-09


mpinck

New Member

posts 2

I have to admit to still not quite understanding what creaky voice is. If you have one, can someone give me a pointer to an example of it in the wild?

–Michael

12:34PM
Feb-23-09


Grant Barrett

Brooklyn, New York

Admin

posts 1040

Michael, there are descriptions and samples of creaky voice here and here. I meant to link to them in the original post above, so thanks for requesting them!

1:49PM
Feb-23-09


tvieno

Member

posts 7

Post edited 8:03PM – Feb-23-09 by tvieno


I thought I was the only one who heard the creaky voice. I always called it “The Tired Voice.” Like when someone has been up for a long time (24 hours or so) and their voice gets creaky. One of the radio shows that comes on very early in the morning I listen to has a lot of “experts” that are used for sound bites and it seems like it is mostly women who have that “tired voice”. It makes me want to get a drink of water. Also, like gw above, I hear it in commercials as well.

–snipped from above– "A caller observes that after moving to Indianapolis, he noticed that many of the locals say the names of commercial enterprises as if they’re plural or possessive, even when they’re not, such as calling Walmart “Walmart’s.” Grant explains the inclination to add the S sound to the names of businesses in casual speech and writing."

I live in the Chicago area and I have noticed the possessive form of named establishments. We have two kinds of grocery stores, Jewel Foods and Dominick's. People call Jewel Foods, Jewel's. But what I have also heard is people will say, "I am going to THE Jewel's." or "I am going to THE Dominick's."

2:41PM
Feb-23-09


Richard R

Tustin, CA

Member

posts 3

Regarding that "s", spelled or spoken at the end of a business' name, here in southern California there are many businesses who spell their name with the S but without an apostrophe. Best examples are supermarket chains: Vons, Ralphs, Albertsons. Yet Lowe's uses the apostrophe. I can't see that there is any rule or guideline for this useage, it seems to be just a matter of some do, some don't.

8:40PM
Feb-23-09


ward

Guest

About the Red Letter Day…On the desk Calenders that the Government Printing office makes for sale to government agencies, All the official Holidays are printed in red. A conversation would be go something like this…"Do we have Monday Off? yes, because It's a Red Letter Day"

Ward

10:31PM
Feb-23-09


Highpockets

Member

posts 4

Post edited 4:44AM – Feb-24-09 by Highpockets


I don’t post here a lot but this episode has all kinds of things I want to comment on.

re: dibs, My father told a story of a roommate in college, dad would make muffins or cookies and taking them out of the oven, his roommate would come over and lick his finger and touch a muffin saying, “This ones mine, and this ones mine, and this ones mine…” apparently he had never heard of, I hosey that!.

re: noms de fetus, There is a blog I read and the author is pregnant with her first child, she has temporary named the baby “flippy” http://tinyurl.com/d4vamc ,full description there. You mentioned names not just for the unborn, but kids as well, that’s where my handle comes from. when I was a kid, my dad called me, my brother and sister “lowpockets” we were small and had pockets much lower than his. Now that I’ve grown and have kids of my own, they are the lowpockets and that gives me highpockets.

re: Drop the kids off at the lake, I always heard …at the pool. A friend and I had a good chuckle when he said it to a boss, and boss asked, “Well how long are you going to be gone”?!

and lastly
re: Wal-mart’s, I always get a kick out of saying, “I’m going to the wal-mart’s, you need anything?” My mom always said, “we are getting your back to school clothes at Jacques Penne’, there’s no need to be embarrassed.”

3:42AM
Feb-24-09


Bubba in Texas

New Member

posts 2

Post edited 9:50AM – Feb-24-09 by Bubba in Texas


If I understand the concept of “creaky voice” correctly, then I’ve got a great example of someone who has it…and it’s someone who discusses some of the same topics talked about on “A Way With Words”: Mignon Fogerty, AKA “Grammar Girl”. I listen to her podcast somewhat regularly, and to be honest, while I enjoy most of the content of her shows, the way her voice creaks at the end of many of her sentences really bothers me. I wonder if she’s even aware it happens.

When one of your callers mentioned adding the possessive to the end of certain businesses, the first thing that came to my mind was “JCPenney/JCPenney’s”. A few minutes later, Grant mentioned that very example. I’m not sure if I should be excited or scared that Grant and I were on the same wave length at that moment.:wink:

Love the show–keep up the great work!!

4:06AM
Feb-24-09


Matt Holck

Member

posts 82

Post edited 10:17AM – Feb-24-09 by Matt Holck


Martha and Grant have beautiful voices.

I abbreviate “is” often placing in on the end of common and proper nouns
such as

Jack’s back.
The hour’s late.

’s that legal?

©

9:58AM
Feb-24-09


Matt Holck

Member

posts 82

whitekoi

re: creaky voice
Creaky voice drives me nuts! Intuition tells me it is an indication of youth, vulnerability and desire for approval. Can you imagine Hillary Clinton breaking into creaky voice? I can’t. I used to listen to a radio station where they had a contest to determine which woman had the sexiest voice. The most annoying creaky voice always won. Ick.

Eartha Kit was my favorite Cat Woman

video

©

10:31AM
Feb-24-09


Bios Theoretikos

Member

posts 15

Talking of spending a penny, there was an extension of this that was used particularly in the coy way in which we speak to children, that implied a more solid contribution – a sixpence!
My favourite urination euphemisms are Australian – 'I have to go wet my boots' and 'I have to hang a rat.'

Chris

8:01PM
Feb-24-09


Elizabeth

New Member

posts 1

i wonder if “hand running” has anything to do with “hands down.”

http://www.phrases.org.uk/mean…..-down.html

i grew up hearing “hand running.” i grew up in charlotte nc, with parents who grew up here and in north wilkesboro nc.

9:04PM
Feb-24-09


Matt Holck

Member

posts 82

thank you

©

10:17PM
Feb-24-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 792

Post edited 4:24AM – Feb-25-09 by martha


So much great stuff to respond to here! For now, let me just say it’s weird about “creaky voice.” I confess I hadn’t noticed it, but I sure do now. Ann Althouse is a lawyer, not a linguist, but she has an interesting post about it on her blog, apparently having noticed the same thing. She includes a clip from “Scrubs” in which one of the characters seems to have it. Or maybe it’s just the last of a sore throat?:lol:

10:21PM
Feb-24-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 792

i grew up hearing “hand running.” i grew up in charlotte nc, with parents who grew up here and in north wilkesboro nc.

Elizabeth, my pappy was from next door in the hills of Alexander County, and I wish he were around to ask if he used it as well. I'll bet he did.

1:00AM
Feb-25-09


Bubba in Texas

New Member

posts 2

Post edited 7:11AM – Feb-25-09 by Bubba in Texas


Upon further investigation, I have discovered that in my earlier post I misspelled Grammar Girl’s last name. Her name is Mignon Fogarty, not Fogerty.

Here is a link to the Grammar Girl website, where you can listen to her podcasts and hear what I mean about her voice:

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/

12:01PM
Feb-25-09


Paul

Guest

re: Hosey/freezing a seat

When I was a kid we wanted to save a seat while we left the room for a minute we would say, "No tough rocks". I think this arose from a conversation that went something like this:

Me: "Hey you are in my seat"
Sister: "You left"
Me: "I just had to go to the bathroom"
Sister: "Tough rocks!"

Thenceforth we would say "I call 'no tough rocks' on my chair" before leaving the room.

10:26AM
Feb-26-09


ajlobster

Brooklyn

Member

posts 3

A friend of mine calls her unborn baby "The Blueberry," but my favorite nom de fetus is that of my cousin (later named Nick, once he was born), which was "Cletus the Fetus."

ultracondensedmovies

12:05PM
Mar-02-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 792

Funny about all the fetus talk. I recently learned that in Argentinian slang, you can say someone's unattractive by calling him one, as in "Es un feto." ("He's a fetus.")

7:35PM
Mar-05-09


Brazilian dude

New Member

posts 2

Post edited 1:46AM – Mar-06-09 by Brazilian dude


I’m sorry that I can’t contribute with English examples, but I hope these will be somewhat fun as well.

Talking about family language, my late grandma used to say in Portuguese “não estou muito quarenta hoje” (I’m not very forty today), which meant that she was feeling under the weather on that particular day. I always wondered why forty and not any other number. I even thought it had something to do with fever, since in the Celsius scale if you have 40 degrees, you’re sizzling (maybe even close to death). But then being 40 couldn’t be a good thing, that would be a bad thing, so I don’t get it.

A “euphemism” that some people use to say they are going to the bathroom is “vou tirar água do joelho” (I’m going to take water out of my knee). Is that because of the relative proximity? That still stumps me to this day.

4:15PM
Mar-07-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 792

Ha! I love both of those, Brazilian dude. Wonder how old your grandmother was when she started saying that? My hunch is it would have to do with age. Anyone else in your family use it?

I'm going to have to try using the water-on-the-knee-removal euphemism (in English, anyway).

11:30AM
Mar-14-09


Bill 5

Dana Point, CA

Member

posts 36

On noms de fetus (noms de feti?), we started off calling our first "the little shmookie". After birth, he became shmookie, or the shmookie. I think, if you address somebody as shmookie, you just have to tickle them under their chin or something. The sound is compelling.

When we got our second, they became the "little dudes". This was all fine and dandy until our third child proved to be a girl. Problem solved one night while tiredly serving a late dinner: "OK, dude, here's your plate. And here's your plate, dude. And here's your plate, dude." "I'm not a dude!" "Ah, Doodah! That's what I said. Two dudes and a doodah!"

She's been our little doodah ever since, thanks to the parade. (Familiar form: "Doo", as in "Time to wake up for school now, Doo!")

—-
(My favorite [outside my family] nom de toddler is that of Bay Buchanan, named by her older brothers who couldn't get the whole word "baby" out — and it stuck for life!)

10:14AM
Apr-05-09


MarcNaimark

Member

posts 47

A nice example of creaky voice at minute 39 of this podcast:
http://geekspeak.org/shows/aud…..64kbps.mp3

6:17PM
Apr-23-09


dhenderson

Sunnyvale, CA

Member

posts 57

Friends in Boulder, CO, in the early 1980's used a nom de fetus that I just love: Embryella.

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

10:43AM
May-19-09


Glenn

Member

posts 541

Post edited 5:17PM – May-19-09 by Glenn


A caller observes that after moving to Indianapolis, he noticed that many of the locals say the names of commercial enterprises as if they’re plural or possessive, even when they’re not, such as calling Walmart “Walmart’s.” Grant explains the inclination to add the S sound to the names of businesses in casual speech and writing.

A tangent to this issue has come up at work.

For a company whose name really IS possessive (e.g. Macy’s; Sotheby’s; Moody’s: not so much Victoria’s Secret) it can be very awkward to use an “of” construction to render the possessive. (e.g. “Did you order that from the website of Macy’s?”; “The commission of Sotheby’s varies with each auction purchase.”) Is there a style guide that indicates if an invariant form can be used appropriately? (e.g. “Did you order that from Macy’s website?”; “Sotheby’s commission varies with each auction purchase.”)

I tend to think in these cases, the same form can be subjective, objective, and possessive. I can find evidence of this — along with lots of handling I think is flatly wrong — but nothing authoritative.

Thanks for any help.

10:04PM
May-20-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 792

Embryella!! OMG.

10:06PM
May-20-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 792

Glenn, couldn't you just say "that Macy's website" with "Macy's" functioning as an adjective? Or am I missing something here? (Probably, but it's been a long day!)

11:33AM
Jul-02-09


noah little

Member

posts 19

Hey gang, late to the party but had to chime in about "hoseying" something. As a native Bostonian that term is dearly familiar, but in my family we used to call "savzies" to reserve the best TV viewing spot (the couch, the whole couch) when we went for a quick toilet break.

love the show!

1:34PM
Jul-02-09


noah little

Member

posts 19

Speaking of speak…

That little bit thrown in there after the discussion about speak vs talk, when Martha uses "speak to" meaning "speak about"…

What is it about saying speak to instead of speak about? That usage seems fairly recent, and there's something about it that rubs me the wrong way.

"Those roses sure are wilting this summer. Joe Green, you're the garden expert, can you speak to that?"
This would make me think, uhm, no, Joe can not speak to an issue. He can speak about it though. Apparently it's become common enough that only grumps like me get bothered by it. Anyone else cringe when they hear that?

grumble grumble

4:34AM
Jul-03-09


Kelly

New Member

posts 1

I haven't heard the "creaky voice" episode yet, but I clicked on the link to the original story and listened to examples. Evidently, I have "creaky voice." I don't do it on purpose, so the idea that it's some kind of intentional affectation doesn't ring true for me. As a native Californian, raised by native Californians, I don't have any connection to Washington. So where did I get my "creak?"
I had to laugh at the mi-oove and ri-uude vowel-fronting Californiaism. I'm TOTALLY guilty as charged on that one.
What about "wanna" and "gonna" and "kinda" are those Lazy-California-Speak too? Or is that common everywhere?

5:02PM
Jul-05-09


Joel Mielke

Eureka, California

New Member

posts 2

Martha's trick for those object and subject first-person pronouns works well.
I would add one thing: Avoid the substitution of myself for I or me. At least one has a 50/50 chance of being correct with I or me, but myself is always wrong.