Nicknames!

Grant, in your 4/5 show, you talked about coming from St Louis, but not knowing any nicknames for it.

Why, Mound City, of course! (Despite the fact that all of the hundreds of Indian mounds in the city, except one, were levelled in the 1800s.)

When I double-checked Wikipedia, it reminded me that it is also the Gateway City (or Gateway to the West).

I always thought that was just an advertising slogan from the people who wanted to sell the Arch, but I guess it deserves the Gateway moniker too. It was, of course, the East-West railroad gateway, starting with the 1857 Eads Bridge, where it was the first non-ferry crossing of the Mississippi, and there are hundreds of miles of track in marshalling yards on both sides of the river. It was also the gateway for Lewis & Clark and all those 1840s+ wagon trains. (Henry Shaw, of St Louis's Shaw Arboretum, etc., made his coin selling shovels to most every wagon that went west.)

I lived just south of the town of Des Peres, Missouri. For us, it didn't mean the Catholic fathers, for which the River des Peres was named. Rather, we knew those long hot summer days as
Despair in Misery

And, Martha, when I went to college in West Lafayette, Indiana, we had lots of students up from Louisville. We were taught to pronounce it what they considered "properly". Without vowels, it's nearly a nickname — "LLVLL". I like it a lot — just "LLLL" with a little lip flip in the middle.

My favorite personal nickname is Bay Buchanan (whose older sibling couldn't say the second syllable of "baby", and she became the "Bay"). But I want to divide personal "nicknames" into two words. A nickname should be something that the others made up for you, like Bay. But I would distinguish something standard that derives from your formal name, like Bill for William. Bill feels more like an inherent variation of the name, not a "nick" name. But what do you call that (besides nickname)?

Grant, I have some terrible news: Kevin has a point.

I, myself, have had some experience as a lexicographer and I cringe at each mistake I make, but I make a point not to cover it up.

I think Kevin's main point here is that of frequency vs. commonness. An IT word may be common in San F. but not have much currency outside of that. True, many terms do originate there but whether or not they take hold is something that can't be guessed. If your knowledge of “white hat” and “honeypot computer” is canonical (i.e., orthodox) then it could be that those two terms have been supplanted by either simpler ones or a different nuance of meaning.

Kevin really made a very good point when he said:

I've refrained from citing my work experience and professional references because I don't believe that my personal experience has any bearing on my correctness.

If we could reach a consensus on which terms have more currency than the other in IT, that would be a boon to both sides of the argument. Since, it's not about being right, it's about being open to and aware of the fluxes to which language (esp. jargon) is inevitably prone.

Careful, greyaenigma, everyone's got a tone.

Whether or not Grant said something less than accurate will not be resolved here. So, folks—seriously—let's get on with it!…

Bill 5 said:
…[W]hen I went to college in West Lafayette, Indiana, we had lots of students up from Louisville. We were taught to pronounce it what they considered “properly”. Without vowels, it's nearly a nickname — “LLVLL”. I like it a lot — just “LLLL” with a little lip flip in the middle.

That's awesome.

Also, check this out.

martha said:

Yes, having grown up there, I'd say "LLVLL" is pretty much correct if you want to sound like a native.

LLVLL's an odd mix, though. It was a divided city during the Civil War, and folks in the southern part of the county tend to speak with a MUCH stronger Southern accent than those of us who grew up in the northeast section.

My experience was that one could take careful instruction from a native on the proper pronunciation of Llvll, and even with years of tutelage the first public try at pronouncing the name as taught would result in a nod, smile, and correction. I've come to believe that every single person there has a specifically nuanced pronunciation. I honestly do think that a non-Louisville accent creates an assumption and perception that the name is being mispronounced. Perhaps I'm being a tad harsh – my pronunciation, a learned northern version, is sometimes considered admirable if imprecise.