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Sailor's Delight (full episode)
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UserPost

12:45PM
Mar-07-10


Grant Barrett

San Diego, California

Admin

posts 1197

Post edited 3:38PM – Mar-08-10 by Grant Barrett


"Red sky at night, sailor's delight. Red sky at morning, sailor take warning." Martha talks about this weather proverb, which has been around in one form or another since ancient times. Grant shares a favorite weather word: . Also this week: Is there a better alternative to the word mentee? What's pooflapoo pie?

This episode first aired March 6, 2010. Listen here:

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A Dallas listener and her boss have a dispute. The boss says the staff should get "on the stick." The caller and her co-workers say the correct phrase is "on the ball." Grant gives her an answer, then suggests a third option used in Hawaii: on the .

What's the best term for someone who's being mentored? A woman in a mentoring program at church thinks the word mentee sounds like "manatee." She's hoping for an alternative.

Grant shares another weather-related word from Britain: .

Quiz Guy John Chaneski offers a puzzle in honor of the hosts' initials. Every clue prompts a two-word answer beginning with the letters M and B or G and B. For example: "Paper or plastic?"

A caller named Todd says that when people meet him for the first time, they sometimes call him Scott, even if he's wearing a nametag with his real name on it. It's happened too many times to be a coincidence, he says, and wonders if there's something about the double letters that registers the wrong name in people's minds. Why do we get other people's names wrong?

Whip up a big batch of pistachio pudding, then add pineapple, walnuts, Cool Whip, and marshmallow bits, and what do you have? A Los Angeles woman says her grandmother used to make a dish with those ingredients that she called pooflapoo pie. Is that just her family's name for it, or do other people refer to it that way? Other people call it Watergate salad or ambrosia.

Have trouble remembering the difference between stalagtites and stalagmites? Martha shares a mnemonic that will help.

A police officer says that the prosecutor edits out the word "that" from the reports he submits, as in, "The subject stated that he met the co-defendant at a party." Is the word "that" necessary here? Martha and Grant disagree. Also, the cop also has a brain-teaser for the hosts: Can you use the word "that" five times consecutively in a sentence correctly?

The hosts talk about the tricks they use to remember how to spell certain words.

Why do we say that someone finely attired is dressed to the nines?

A woman says that when playing hide-and-seek with a small child, her mother-in-law says "peep-eye!" instead of "peekaboo!" Is that usage limited to certain parts of the country? And where do they say "pee-bo!"?

Grant talks about two other weather-related terms, frontogenesis and aeromancy.

When comparing one item with the rest of the items in a group, which is better: more or most?

.

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Read the original blog post.

2:15PM
Mar-07-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 2:17PM – Mar-07-10 by Glenn


Regarding the word mentee, you can subject yourself to my rant in the earlier discussion in the Recommended topic section entitled "What words do you hate?" ('nuf said?) I won't bother to copy it here.

2:37PM
Mar-07-10


martha

martha

Admin

posts 817

I enjoyed that the second time as much as the first, Glenn!

3:06PM
Mar-07-10


Ron Draney

Member

posts 428

Grant Barrett said:

Whip up a big batch of pistachio pudding, then add pineapple, walnuts, Cool Whip, and marshmallow bits, and what do you have? A Los Angeles woman says her grandmother used to make a dish with those ingredients that she called pooflapoo pie. Is that just her family's name for it, or do other people refer to it that way? Other people call it Watergate salad or ambrosia.


The family of my former girlfriend used to serve that or something much like it at every big family get-together. They all just called it "the green stuff".

10:23AM
Mar-08-10


BelmontLovely

Charlottesville, VA

New Member

posts 2

I too am keen to hear of any suggested alternatives to the awkward and passive Mentee. At the organization where I am the head of Talent Management, we have a Development Manager (DM) responsible for guiding each Mentee's professional development. We'd love to come up with something more collaborative and catchy than Mentee, but have yet to find the right word. The name of the firm is Dominion Digital and we're in the habit of referring to each other as DDIGers (DEE-dig-ers) after the nickname for the firm, DDIG. We'd be happy to go with a made up name for the mentee role. Suggestions welcome and greatly appreciated.

12:01PM
Mar-08-10


EmmettRedd

Admin

posts 363

I too am keen to hear of any suggested alternatives to the awkward and passive Mentee.

How about "protege"?

Emmett

12:10PM
Mar-08-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 12:11PM – Mar-08-10 by Glenn


Grant Barrett said:

What's the best term for someone who's being mentored? A woman in a mentoring program at church thinks the word mentee sounds like "manatee." She's hoping for an alternative.


I like Grant's suggestion of protege. It seems that the caller, like my parents, associates some of the meaning of prodigy with the word protege, perhaps because of the similar pronunciations. However, the denoted meaning of protege works quite well in this context.

Of course, in a church context, the word disciple could work very well — not to be confused with apostle, which would not do at all.

To pair with mentor a word of Greek origin might be nice, but I haven't found a good Greek option yet.

12:11PM
Mar-08-10


Rhododendron

Member

posts 5

Post edited 12:13PM – Mar-08-10 by Rhododendron


In a field that I work in, new professionals have to spend a time working under the supervision of a series of experienced professionals, and the terms mentor and mentee are in common use. I agree that mentee is an ugly coinage.
I suspect the proper substitute depends on the exact situation. "Protege" to me suggests a long-term and professional relationship. Student, intern, junior, pupil, apprentice, candidate, learner, team member (in relation to a coach), or associate might all have a place. Or how about abecedarian?

12:22PM
Mar-08-10


Rhododendron

Member

posts 5

I'd like to add a weather-word question or two.

I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, and "black ice" was a common winter weather word. When I went to college in the Northeast in the 1970s, no one seemed to know the term. Now it seems to be commonplace in the East. Was this a regional word that caught on?

Another winter weather word that I knew growing up was "silver thaw," meaning an ice storm. I think this was a Pacific Northwest and New England term, and I never hear it where I live now, in the Mid Atlantic states. Does this term have any currency?

1:01PM
Mar-08-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 1:27PM – Mar-08-10 by Glenn


I can attest to the wide use of the term "black ice" in Concord N.H. in the winter of 1974-1975. It was great to skate all over the lakes and ponds.

There and then it refered to the water freezing to a safe thickness without having snow to ruin the smooth surface, making all the lakes and ponds open for recreation. This newspaper article (The Day, New London CT, Nov. 23, 1977) puts it well.

Now I more often hear it refer to the road hazard of hard-to-spot frozen patches.
Which did it mean in the Pacific Northwest?

1:34PM
Mar-08-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 1:34PM – Mar-08-10 by Glenn


To pair with mentor a word of Greek origin might be nice, but I haven't found a good Greek option yet.


Also with some ecclesiatic associations is the Greek-based word acolyte. This might work well in a church where the word has not already been pressed into service for another function.

1:37PM
Mar-08-10


poohbear72579

Evanston, IL

Member

posts 4

Regarding "On the stick":

I was surprised that MUSIC was not mentioned as I've heard this same phrase used in the context of orchestra rehearsals and conducting classes and then applied as a metaphor outside those circumstances. To be "on the stick" in rehearsal meant that you were playing in tempo and in the same style as being portrayed by the conductor.

3:31PM
Mar-08-10


Ron Draney

Member

posts 428

Glenn said:

Grant Barrett said:

What's the best term for someone who's being mentored? A woman in a mentoring program at church thinks the word mentee sounds like "manatee." She's hoping for an alternative.


I like Grant's suggestion of protege. It seems that the caller, like my parents, associates some of the meaning of prodigy with the word protege, perhaps because of the similar pronunciations. However, the denoted meaning of protege works quite well in this context.
Of course, in a church context, the word disciple could work very well — not to be confused with apostle, which would not do at all.
To pair with mentor a word of Greek origin might be nice, but I haven't found a good Greek option yet.


The caller came very close to my suggestion but backed away at the last instant: call the student a telemachus. The idea stated by the caller's husband, that it's wrong to interpret a proper name as a regular word, flies in the face of all those other Homeric characters who receive similar treatment: Hector, Stentor, Achilles.

(I worry, though, that people will put the stress on the third syllable of "telemachus", making it sound like it's derived from "telemarketer".)

3:37PM
Mar-08-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

I also love the idea of it, but in practice, no matter how you pronounce it, telemachus just doesn't skip off the tongue.

8:04PM
Mar-08-10


cajunnan

Member

posts 4

Regarding Peep Eye…I'm from South Louisiana and we played Peep Eye as well as Peek A Boo as children, but I remember Peep Eye more so. It cracked me up that Martha heard it as Pea Pie! Similar to that, when playing I Spy as a child, I always heard it as Ice Buy, but I never could figure out why they called it that…I just liked playing it!

9:06PM
Mar-08-10


AndrewH

New Member

posts 2

Post edited 9:09PM – Mar-08-10 by AndrewH


Grant Barrett said:

When comparing one item with the rest of the items in a group, which is better: more or most?


To me, one with engineering disciplines, this is a fairly simply question involving probabilities, averages, ratios, relative qualities or math in short, LOL. When saying someone is 'more' (adjective) in some group, I would think of someone is better than average. As in picking anyone from the group to compare the subject, the person is likely better. As in the caller's case, Johny is a stronger candidate of the group than anyone that is picked at random to compare. If someone is one of the 'most' (adjective) in a group, the person has to be in the top third of group. As in Johny would be the strongest of the candidate if two other people picked at random to compare.

Personally, this method of the thinking makes the most sense. Johny is likely a strong candidate out of 40 applicate but how strong? By saying stronger, Johny is better than average or the top half and better than No. 20, which also works with one and one relative comparison. If Johny is a very strong candidate, yet one is unsure whether he is No. 1, but sure of being in the top third, 'one of the strongest' works just fine. Random two other plus Johny relative comparison would be just fine as well.

This concludes my little nuggets of reasoning, hope you all enjoyed it.

Andrew H.

9:13PM
Mar-08-10


Rhododendron

Member

posts 5

Glenn said:

I can attest to the wide use of the term "black ice" in Concord N.H. in the winter of 1974-1975. It was great to skate all over the lakes and ponds.

There and then it refered to the water freezing to a safe thickness without having snow to ruin the smooth surface, making all the lakes and ponds open for recreation. This newspaper article (The Day, New London CT, Nov. 23, 1977) puts it well.

Now I more often hear it refer to the road hazard of hard-to-spot frozen patches.
Which did it mean in the Pacific Northwest?


In the Northwest, it referred to the road hazard. In the valleys west of the Cascades, you often had wet mornings after nights just below freezing, which left thin ice on the roads looking just like wet asphalt, hence black ice.

2:36AM
Mar-09-10


Ron Draney

Member

posts 428

Fun with comparatives: what is the opposite of "more"? Is it "less" or "fewer"?

It's interesting that English has the same comparative and superlative for "much" and "many", but not on the opposite end of the scale for "little" and "few".

The ambiguity allows people to argue endlessly about which is correct:

"More than six eggs per day is bad for you."
"More than six eggs per day are bad for you."

…or:

"Most of the senior class is out sick today."
"Most of the senior class are out sick today."

2:05PM
Mar-09-10


Kaa

Atlanta, Georgia

Member

posts 43

Regarding the word 'slatch':

Back in the mid-70s there was a Saturday morning live-action science-fiction/fantasy TV show called Land of the Lost (which was INFINITELY better than the stupid movie starring what's-his-name). It featured a family of three (dad and two kids) who fell into an alternate dimension where dinosaurs live and some of the bad guys were 7'-tall insectoid/reptiloid creatures called Sleestak.

One of the Sleestak characters was named S'latch or Slatch. He was a very advanced Sleestak who'd been born with all the knowledge in the universe. Except how to escape the Land of the Lost, of course. :)

I wonder if Wina Sturgeon (who wrote the episode (The Hole)) knew the word 'slatch' when she named him. :)

2:06PM
Mar-09-10


Kaa

Atlanta, Georgia

Member

posts 43

Regarding Todd/Scott:

My real name is Gary, but I get called Greg a LOT. Same kind of thing that your caller was talking about: it happens far too often for me to believe it's just coincidence.

2:33PM
Mar-09-10


Kaa

Atlanta, Georgia

Member

posts 43

Martha: I ALWAYS use the Oxford comma! :)

Did you know there's a song called "Oxford Comma" by Vampire Weekend? It's not safe for work or for kids because of language, but here's a link to listen:

Or if that doesn't work. :)

2:40PM
Mar-09-10


Kaa

Atlanta, Georgia

Member

posts 43

Post edited 2:41PM – Mar-09-10 by Kaa


On spelling mnemonics:

I always had a problem spelling broccoli. I never could remember whether there were two c's, two l's, or two of both. Until a friend of mine said to think "e. coli, where e = broc".

I know that's silly and probably wouldn't work for anyone else but me, but that is literally how I remember how to spell broccoli each and every time I type it. :)

3:01PM
Mar-09-10


EmmettRedd

Admin

posts 363

Kaa,

I also had problems spelling "nuclear" (not a good thing for a physicist) until I realized it was the same as "unclear" with the first two letters switched.

Emmett

4:12PM
Mar-09-10


Ron Draney

Member

posts 428

Would anyone care to spend some time talking about words that other people will assume you have misspelled (especially when the difference hinges on the presence or absence of a double letter)?

We've all known people who routinely "correct" his just deserts to make it seem like it's about ice cream. And fans of Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers may remember being briefly confused by the references to a corespondent in "The Gay Divorcee".

1:15PM
Mar-10-10


mpg

Member

posts 16

> What's the best term for "someone who's being mentored"?

"Mentat" immediately came to mind. Apparently it is not a Real Word(tm), but it seems like a good candidate nonetheless.

ob. cit.:

-mpg

4:42PM
Mar-10-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 4:50PM – Mar-10-10 by Glenn


Unless I am mistaken, the word mentat was coined by Frank Herbert in the Dune series. The meaning was a person who, in the place of computers, was a kind of savant at doing large-number mental manipulations and complex analyses. They were hired for their skills, which could be greatly enhanced by sappho juice which, while increasing their cognitive speed and mental activity, could also be quite addictive.

Anyone who has that association (Anyone? … Anyone?) would be confused by the use of the word for a person being mentored.

5:00PM
Mar-10-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 5:08PM – Mar-10-10 by Glenn


Ron Draney said:

We've all known people who routinely "correct" his just deserts to make it seem like it's about ice cream.

This is certainly my most notable example. Each time I put it in writing, "just deserts" creates a firestorm. Now I avoid it.

Last time I saw it "in print" was the Wall Street Journal online, wsj.com, in an acticle about Eliot Spitzer. You can fill in the blanks. Online it was spelled "just desserts" so I ran (as fast as I could) to a buddy I knew would have the paper copy, in which it was spelled correctly as "just deserts." I prefer to assume the print editor was more skilled than the online editor, and made a last-minute change. The alternative possibility that the online editor "corrected" the spelling to "desserts" would be too distressing to dwell upon.

I e-mailed wsj.com, but got no reply, and the online article was never corrected to my knowledge.

9:17AM
Mar-11-10


BelmontLovely

Charlottesville, VA

New Member

posts 2

Thank you all for the suggested alternatives to mentee. They all have a certain appeal, however the search continues for the right word for our firm.

1:44PM
Mar-11-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 1:45PM – Mar-11-10 by Glenn


Ron Draney said:

We've all known people who routinely "correct" his just deserts to make it seem like it's about ice cream.


Glenn said:

Last time I saw it "in print" was the Wall Street Journal online, wsj.com, in an acticle about Eliot Spitzer. You can fill in the blanks.

No longer any need to take my word for it.

10:00AM
Mar-12-10


rmallory

Temple, TX

New Member

posts 1

Saw this just this morning in the forum discussion of the Ask Amy column in the Chicago Tribune, March 12, 2010. The discussion was in response to a letter written by a high school student who was being pressured to spend too much time babysitting.

"They need to get on the stick and find themselves another sitter or two."

11:23AM
Mar-12-10


Goheels

Member

posts 10

I am a tutor for kids at a nearby highschool and my boss calls the recipients of the tutelage "tutees" and I must say I'm not a big fan of "tutee."

1:02PM
Mar-12-10


Glenn

Admin

posts 1057

Post edited 1:28PM – Mar-12-10 by Glenn


Oddly, tutee sounds nearly identical to an etymologically correct form (Lat. tuti, past passive participle of the verb from which tutor comes), for those who are tutored. (The primary meaning of the Latin verb is to guard.) For one person, it would be tutus (male) or tuta (female), similar to alumnus, alumna, alumni.

Not for the oblique reason above, but because tutor does actually come from a verb and not a name, I do not find tutee as offensive as mentee.

7:02PM
Mar-12-10


telemath

Member

posts 163

Re: Mentor

I would suggest "trainee". It's not fancy, but it carries almost no baggage. To me, it simply means one who is learning the ropes.

I read a fantasy book once that described a magician's apprentice as a "tyro". I've always liked that word, but it's a little too obscure for me to use in daily speech.

Re: Spelling

I always had trouble with "privileged" until I memorized the sequence of vowels – i,i,e,e.

Words frequently mispelled: The past tenst of "cancel" and "travel", and anything else with an 'l' at the end that doesn't get doubled when it goes to past tense. I'd have to give the British the point on that one. I think they got it right.

2:31AM
Mar-13-10


Ron Draney

Member

posts 428

telemath said:

Re: Spelling

I always had trouble with "privileged" until I memorized the sequence of vowels – i,i,e,e.


That's not quite the same thing; the examples I mentioned are words that are valid either way (so that spell-checkers don't flag them!), but people unfamiliar with the right word will "helpfully" change it to the wrong one.

As for words that are just hard for most people to get right, you're not going to do much better than sacrilegious and minuscule.

1:26PM
Mar-13-10


johng423

Member

posts 127

stalagtites and stalagmites – I checked dictionary.com and could not find an entry for stalagtites. I've always seen it spelled stalactites, with a "c", not a "g".

To remember the difference between stalactites and stalagmites, I learned the tip that "stalactites" (with a "c") were stuck "tight" to the ceiling (notice the "c").