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7:42AM Feb-09-08
| Grant Barrett
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In this week's episode: Just how far back could you go and still understand the English people were speaking? We crank up our trusty time machine to find out. Hint: You'd probably have a tough time getting around in the eighth century, when English poetry looked like: “Hwaet we gardena in geardagum…”
This episode originally aired February 9th and 10th, 2008.
Listen here: Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.
(23.5MB).
This week we also started our online-only summer minicasts. .
Speaking of the more recent past: When you played hide-and-seek as a child, did you yell “Ollie, Ollie Oxen Free”? Or “Ally Ally in Free”? Or maybe “Ally Ally Ump Free”? “Ole Ole Olsen Free”? Or something else? A caller in Montevideo, Uruguay, is curious about the origin of such nonsensical phrases.
It's the Moby Dick of etymology: “Where do we get the phrase the whole nine yards?” A pediatrician in North Carolina wonders if it derives from a World War II phrase involving “nine yards” of ammunition. Grant and Martha discuss the many theories about this expression. Looking for the naughty story we mentioned about Scotsman and his kilt? You'll find it on etymological researcher .
Martha and Grant discuss squeejawed and other strange terms that mean crooked, or askew, including slanchwise, whompy-jawed, lopper-jawed, antigogglin', sigogglin, and catawampus.
This week puzzle-guy Greg Pliska gave a quiz called Categorical Allies or Dandy Dyads. He gave a word and Martha and Grant had to come up with the second word that was in the same category as the first and began with the same two letters that the first one ends with.
So, French was a clue, to which we responded Chinese, the category being languages (though it would work as food, too). The two letters CH end FrenCH and start CHinese.
At the end of the quiz, Greg proposed that listeners come up with a string of more than four items in a specific category that follow the same rules. Greg gave the example of American states. His clue was Alabama. We followed it with Maine, Nebraska, Kansas. Or Maine, New Mexico, Colorado. Each word ends with the same two letters that the next word starts with.
So, to play this here in the forums, come up with a fairly narrow category, such as French authors, computer parts, insects, American presidents, or anything else, and then come up with four items that can be linked together by the pairs of last and first letters. Give everyone else the first clue on the forum and the guessing will commence! .
A woman wonders about a phrase from her past: “I'm going to beat you like a red-headed stepchild.” Martha and Grant discuss gingerism, or prejudice against redheads.
A New York babysitter says the English language needs a word to replace the clunky phrase, “the kids I babysit.” The hosts try to help her find one. “Charges”? “Child associates”? “Padawans”?
This week's “Slang This!” contestant, a professor of medieval history at the University of Santa Cruz, tries to guess the meaning of the slang terms quizzam and snirt.
A native speaker of Spanish has a hard time with prepositions in English. Why do we say that someone's “on my mind” but “in my heart”?
A listener in York, England wonders about the word grockles, a derogatory term for tourists.
On an we talked about regional differences involving the words dinner and supper, prompting a whole smorgasbord of responses. Grant reads a few of them on the air.
If you're still wondering about how far back in time you could go and still understand the English spoken then, check out these links:
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in which host Robert Siegel gets a lesson in pronouncing Shakespeare, based on David Crystal's research for London's Globe Theatre.
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Read the original blog post. |
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8:04AM Feb-10-08
| James D. Huycke
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Grant & Martha:
Re: "squeejawed", my father, born in 1910 in Mosinee, Wisconsin, used the term "gee-jawed" in a similar manner. As a driver of teams of animals, he would use "gee" to turn right and "haw" to turn left. I have no specific knowlege of the potential relationships, but the phonetic, conceptual and regional connections seem to close to be coincidental.
j
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9:21AM Feb-10-08
| Stephen Mikesell
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At the end of the discussion about the term for baby-sat children, "care-giver" was mentioned. So how about "care-kids" or "carekids"? It carries a punch and has good connotations.
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11:29AM Feb-11-08
| John Benbow
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Stephen Mikesell said:
At the end of the discussion about the term for baby-sat children, “care-giver” was mentioned. So how about “care-kids” or “carekids”? It carries a punch and has good connotations.
Children whom one babysits? Clearly, "sittees."
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11:33AM Feb-11-08
| martha
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Hi, James — Yes, Chubby Checker used those too! Check out
I don't think it's connected to "squeejawed," though.
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1:35PM Feb-11-08
| Marc Naimark
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1:36PM Feb-11-08
| Marc Naimark
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I suggest "carees". That way you can say, "My carees have caries" after a visit to the dentist.
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2:12PM Feb-11-08
| Amanda
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"I'm going to beat you like a redheaded step-child."
I've never heard that particular phrase using redheaded step-child, but a couple years ago I worked at Books-A-Million (a bookstore chain in the south). The store I worked at was one of the oldest in the district, and it showed: dirty carpet, broken cabinets, mismatching bookshelves, etc. The location was once a hot spot for consumerism so it got a lot of business, but after a while, most shoppers bypassed the area to go to the newer, more recent shopping meccas. A co-worker once described our store as the "redheaded step-child of Books-A-Million." I'd never heard of anything ignored referred to as a redheaded step-child, but I immediately understood the reference and thought it quite witty. Think about the Brady Bunch: if Mr. Brady had three boys and one redheaded girl, she would kind of be the odd one out out of Carol's "three lovely girls with hair of gold like their mother."
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2:14PM Feb-11-08
| Gemma
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For crooked items (e.g. when hanging a painting) I would often have used "skew-wiff" in England, but in Scotland I favour "squint". If something I've made (drawn, cooked, etc) turns out all askew I would most likely call it "wonky".
I had assumed the word "grockle" was much older than the 60s. My Mum (from Devon) used it particularly for "grockle shops" which sold little of interest to locals: mostly buckets and spades, postcards, etc.
I would also like a better word for kids that you babysit. I did like "sittee" above, except that it sounds too much like "settee" (sofa). I guess you could use the expanded version: Babysitter -> Babysittee. Meh.
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9:38PM Feb-11-08
| bolddeceiver
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Re: Martha's half-joking idea "watsons" for what Bill Watterson would call The Babysat, I have to say I like it, if only because it calls up the Doylean sidekick in my mind.
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11:08PM Feb-11-08
| David Long
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There is one reference that was not brought out in the discussion about step-child and lost birth-rights would be that of a Red-head in the bible, Esau.
Gen 25:24-25
24 When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. 25 The first to come out was red, and his whole body was like a hairy garment; so they named him Esau.
As the events unfold, Easu gave away his birth-right for a meal, and lost his father's blessings (inheritance) through deception by the younger brother.
This reference could give reason for such a bad rep upon red-heads, though undeserving.
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3:16PM Feb-12-08
| MarcNaimark
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And more British TV gingerness.
I recall the sitcom "Game On". Here's an extract from the Wikipedia entry:
# Matthew Malone (Ben Chaplin for the first series, subsequently Neil Stuke) – terminally agoraphobic and slightly insane. He could never leave the flat but always thought of himself as a cool guy; he had a surfboard despite his condition. Loved the words "tosser" and "double hard bastard" and in an ongoing gag throughout the entire series would mock his flatmate Martin for being ginger. The 'second Matt', Neil Stuke, actually almost won the role in the first series, just losing out to Ben Chaplin. When Chaplin left, the producers gave Stuke the part.[citation needed]
# Mandy Wilkins (Samantha Janus) – ambitious career girl who finds herself going nowhere except to bed with an endless stream of men (northern by preference).
# Martin Henson (Matthew Cottle) – a tangerine haired banker without attitude, Matthew's slave and source of entertainment.
Matt would usually call Martin a "ginger-headed tosser".
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3:38PM Feb-12-08
| Saralinda
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There is also a large hunk of anti-ginger-hair-itude reflected in J K Rowling's books.
it's rare that a "bad guy" speaks of the Weasley family without a demeaning reference to their red hair.
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9:29AM Feb-15-08
| Joshua Hudson
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I think that a babysitter (or caregiver) who has developed a true family bond should consider the children "para-spawn" (or "feremeiparvulus" coming from the latin fere mei parvulus or "almost my kids") and she should be "para-parentus."
I also think that I am VERY prejudiced toward ginger women. Almost every man I know agrees with me that red hair gives an automatic three point bump in the man-law 1 to 10 beauty scale.
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7:51PM Feb-16-08
| martha
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Wow — lots to respond to here…
Thanks for posting those, Marc. I especially like "I am Ginger!"
Gemma, I like "wonky" as well. And love the term "grockle shop," which is a new one on me.
David, yes, the Esau story is another possible explanation floating around out there, but the truth is that as happens all too often, we just don't know the answer for sure. (I remember my mother the Sunday School teacher getting a big kick out of the King James version, which asserts that "Esau was an hairy man.")
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7:51PM Feb-16-08
| martha
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Saralinda, hadn't thought about that in HP, but you're right!
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3:19PM Feb-20-08
| Lisa Ruch
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And I grew up hearing it as "screwjawed."
I grew up mostly in Wisconsin; my parents were from Iowa. I really don't recall whether I read the word somewhere, heard it used by a family member, or heard it from school friends.
James D. Huycke said:
Grant & Martha:
Re: “squeejawed”, my father, born in 1910 in Mosinee, Wisconsin, used the term “gee-jawed” in a similar manner. As a driver of teams of animals, he would use “gee” to turn right and “haw” to turn left. I have no specific knowlege of the potential relationships, but the phonetic, conceptual and regional connections seem to close to be coincidental.
j
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8:42PM Feb-20-08
| ProfDad
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I really enjoyed the question about the babysitter / child relationship. I would agree that another word group is needed and I had a similar idea to a prior poster: put the word "care" with the relationship. One, we need a word that kids can use to express their relationship with a babysitter. (What 9-year-old wants to admit that they have a babysitter?) Second, there is no emotion in an employee / charge relationship, but many, many babysitters have a close to familial relationship with charges. The word (going both directions) needs to convey some emotion.
I believe that you could put "care" with a variety of familial relationships and get a word with emotional impact. As a babysitter, I could be a care-parent, or even better a care-mom or a care-dad. My charges could be my care-children or my care-child, or even more affectionately, my care-son or care-daughter. In other words, I am using the prefix "care" in a similar way to which I might use the prefix "grand", "step", or "foster". Plus, I think there would be little confusion in hearing the term care-parent or care-child… it sounds like what is it.
Works for me. What do you think?
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12:11PM Feb-21-08
| martha
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Yeah, I definitely remember rolling my eyes as I got older and still had to refer to my "babysitter." (Also funny how she she seemed to get shorter year after year…)
I do like "care" in there somewhere, but darned if I can think of anything euphonious.
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11:55AM Feb-22-08
| strehlow
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I once used the expression "the whole nine yards" with a coworker some years back. She was from Boston (or thereabouts) and she thought I had it wrong. She said it was "the whole ten yards" as that is how far you must advance the ball in American football to get a first down. I had never heard that version before.
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12:17PM Feb-23-08
| martha
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strehlow — Is she a Bruce Willis fan?
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3:27PM Mar-21-08
| Wordsmith
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Here are some links that discuss possible origins of the expression “the whole nine yards”: (the last of these requires membership, which is free).
On the topic of erythrophobia (if you will), interesting articles talk about redheadedness .
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10:11AM May-31-08
| chemchicka
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When I was in college and training to be a teacher, a professor used the name "kidlets" when referring to groups of students – present or future students that we would have in our classrooms. I used the phrase as I went on to teach and it definitely became a word I used when referring to my classes or "kidlet" when referring to one student. Frankly, it became a word which indicated a special and even fond relationship with my students. Thus, I wanted to propose the use of "KIDLET" to your NY babysitter seeking a word to refer to children she babysat. (One last comment – initially, some students take the word as being negative. I am quite sure the negative interpretation comes from the "-let" ending – since the ending is often added to words indicating that it is less than something, such as "booklet" versus "book". I would quickly assure them that being a "KIDLET" was a VERY good person in my point of view.)
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10:35AM May-31-08
| chemchicka
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[This post and my other post are written in reference to hearing May 31st replay of the original episode by WFYI - Indianapolis.]
Regarding "ginger" referring to a red-headed person as well as the documented mistreatment of such a person, especially in the UK. FIRST, in the US and much of the UK the word "ginger" is pronounced with the 'gin-' part sounding like the liquor. In northern England the word is pronounced with the 'gin-' part with a hard "g"(?) … as in using the 'gin' from the word BEGIN … thus GINger.
As for the negativity resulting from being ginger (yes, ginger is often used as a noun in northern England when referring to a red-headed person) … sadly derives itself from the long history of mistreatment and war between Scotland and England. Scots were caricatured as being red-haired … as well as being quick to fight and short-tempered. To this day, the prejudice continues with the red-headed people in England … and 'ginger' is also used in many negative slang phrases.
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1:07PM May-31-08
| martha
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Welcome, chemchika! Thanks for your comments. I do like "kidlets" a lot. (Not to mention that it'd be a nice rhyme for "kismet." Sort of.)
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1:34PM May-31-08
| marvin gerst
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A woman wonders about a phrase from her past: “I'm going to beat you like a red-headed stepchild.” Martha and Grant discuss gingerism, or prejudice against redheads.
In the late 1960s I spent several months in the island of Cyprus. This was in connection with a psychological research project that I was conducting with a colleague of mine JamesTenzel M.D.
While the island was at that time divided between the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot areas, we were allowed to circulate freely over the whole island. One place we visited was the village of Bellapais and its famous Abbey (Abbaye de la Paix). This village was the home of the British author Lawrence Durell during the time when he was writing the Alexandria Quartet. He also wrote a memoir titled Bitter Lemons about his time on Cyprus.
The Abbey was founded by a group of French monks in the 12th century, and apparently abandoned in the 13th or 14th century. The story we were told (and the reason for my note here) was that these monks were all of fair skin and redheaded. Soon after the Abbey was established, children began to be born in the village with similar characteristics even though the village was composed largely of Mediterranean types who were dark-haired and dark skinned.
The story goes that after a while it became too embarrassing for the church to maintain this Abbey under such circumstances and it was abandoned.
While I do not know whether the reference to redheaded stepchildren can be traced back to this obscure village in northern Cyprus, it struck me when I heard Martha and Grant's program this morning.
When we visited this charming village and its Abbey, the views over the northern Mediterranean were breathtaking and it was easy to see its attraction for both its founding religious order and for writers such as Durell who obviously fell in love with this village.
Incidentally, for those not familiar with the island of Cyprus it is replete with ruins artifacts and constant reminders of Western and Middle Eastern civilizations dating back to the Phoenicians. Cyprus was the essential linchpin for all empires in the eastern Mediterranean and as a result was conquered by all such civilizations for the last 4000 years. It is also the setting for which Shakespearean play? (Think Venetian)!
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7:48AM Jun-01-08
| Rosie Palmer
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In reply to what you could call kids you babysat, I really liked the term "Watsons". For me, both of the children are girls, so I simply call them the informal, "my girls" or switch over to Spanish and call them "chicas" or "ninas" (tilde on the second end). They seem to like the spanish version of "girls" and it has a nice ring. I think I'm going to try calling them "Watsons" from now on and see how they like it. My chicas are die-hard Spiderman fans._
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7:54AM Jun-01-08
| curlyann
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On the topic of 'squeejawed' my family used it as I was growing up in Clare County Mi. My older reletives remembered farming with draft animals and they were given the dirctions 'gee' and 'haw' for left and right. If a new driver gave the wrong direction then corrected it I can see an older driver saying something like, "That looks all gee hawed."
So I can see squeehawed coming out of that.
I vote for Paduan for the children that are being babysat. Its a word that sounds affectionate but not familial.
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10:11AM Jun-04-08
| Morninglori
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Re: ginger.
I have always wanted to know why in England they have such a negative context about being a red-head. In America, it seems to be advantageous. If you are a red-head at Mardi Gras, you will get a hefty haul of beads. Redheads get special attention paid by American men (and in my experience, Russian men, though I'm not sure why).
But even in current Brit-lit, a character would describe another as "a bit of a ging" (pronounced 'jinj"), as in… he is attractive, however, he is a bit red-headed and therefore not quite as attractive. I find this very odd. Is this ginger-prejudiced in England extended to red-headed women as well,or just the men? Do you think it has something to do with their historical prejudice's against the Scots and Irish (even though, in reality, there are hardly any real red-headed Irish..and knowing that fact, where did we get the idea that Irish are primarily red-heads in the first place? from the Brits?).
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10:46AM Jun-04-08
| curlyann
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Saralinda said:
There is also a large hunk of anti-ginger-hair-itude reflected in J K Rowling's books.
it's rare that a “bad guy” speaks of the Weasley family without a demeaning reference to their red hair.
My suggestion is really off the top of my head  But consider what catches your eye when you look at a crowd of full heads of hair. Any redheads would stand out like a beacon. So maybe this all really has to do with a literal bulls eye. When we have problems in our own lives there is a redhead that catches our eye and we can project on that person. By the Way here in western Wisconsin we have a lot of redheads and we love them.
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10:46AM Jun-04-08
| curlyann
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Saralinda said:
There is also a large hunk of anti-ginger-hair-itude reflected in J K Rowling's books.
it's rare that a “bad guy” speaks of the Weasley family without a demeaning reference to their red hair.
My suggestion is really off the top of my head  But consider what catches your eye when you look at a crowd of full heads of hair. Any redheads would stand out like a beacon. So maybe this all really has to do with a literal bulls eye. When we have problems in our own lives there is a redhead that catches our eye and we can project on that person. By the Way here in western Wisconsin we have a lot of redheads and we love them.
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7:52PM Jun-18-08
| Brooke Larm
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Grant was brainstorming and came up with padawans. Martha suggested Watsons. I suggest we conflate the two terms and call kids who are babysat "Padawatsons"
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3:00PM Jun-21-08
| martha
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Or "padawhat?" for short, maybe.
I don't know — I still think we need a word for this. Maybe we'll have to borrow an existing one from another language. What are these kids called in, say, Russian or Dutch or Japanese, I wonder? Anyone? Anyone?
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9:31AM Oct-24-08
| curly-v
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I knew that being "ginger" in the UK was reason enough to be picked on, but I was surprised that a few years ago South Park had an episode "Ginger Kids" where one of the characters (Cartman of course) says something like all red-heads are unable to walk around during the daylight hours because they are evil and have no souls.
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3:27PM Jan-04-10
| Cossette729
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I've always called the girl whom I nanny "my girlie," but this term has caused a great deal of confusion. I like "Watson," but I suspect that my particular child (being more of a fan of Star Wars than of Spider-man) will prefer "padawan." I'll put both to her and let her choose.
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