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Zig-Zag and Shilly-Shally (full episode)
Read the original blog post.

UserPost

11:29AM
Oct-24-09


Grant Barrett

San Diego, California

Admin

posts 1212

Post edited 10:29PM – Oct-27-09 by Grant Barrett


Bavarian Chalet. Mushroom Basket. Moose Point. Who in the heck comes up with the names of paints, anyway? Martha and Grant ponder that mystery. They also explain why those annoying emails go by the name spam. And Grant explains the difference between being "adorbs" and "bobo."

This episode first aired October 24, 2009. Listen here:

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Download the MP3 here 23.5 MB).

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Bavarian Chalet. Mushroom Basket. Moose Point. Who in the heck comes up with the names of paint, anyway? Must be the same people who get paid to give names like Love Child, Sellout, and Apocalypse to shades of lipstick. Martha and Grant discuss wacky color names.

Hurly-burly, helter-skelter, zigzag, shilly-shally — the hosts dish out some claptrap about words like these, otherwise known as reduplications or rhyming jingles.

If someone's naked as a needle, just how naked are they? Why "needle"?

Grant and Martha discuss more goofy names for lipstick. Mauvelous Memories, anyone?

Quiz Guy John Chaneski's latest puzzle requires players to guess the last word in a two-line verse. For example: "He’s seven feet tall and big as a tank, The meanest Marine that you’ve ever BLANK." (Stumped? Take a letter out of "seven.")

An Episcopal priest in Toledo worries that her sermons are cluttered with dashes. This works just fine when she's preaching, but when the same text appears on her church's website, it looks like a messy tangle of words and punctuation. The hosts discuss the differences between text written for oral delivery, and text written to be read silently.

Why is that annoying stuff in your email box called spam? Grant has the answer. Here's the Monty Python skit that inspired it.

Can a first-time event ever be called "The First Annual" Such-and-Such? Members of a Cedar Rapids group planning a social mixer disagree.

Is that snazzy new car adorbs or bobo? Grant talks about adorbs, bobo, and a few other slang terms collected by Professor Connie Eble of the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill.

Theories about how Latin Americans came to use the term gringo as a disparaging word for foreigners. We can easily rule out the one about the song "Green Grow the Lilacs," but what about the rest?

An insurance fraud investigator in Milwaukee wonders if he's correct to use a semicolon immediately after the word "however." Grant suggests that the word and the punctuation mark should do a do-si-do.

Many of us learned the rule about using the preposition between when talking about two items, but among when talking about more than two. In reality, though, the rule is a little more complicated.

Someone who's extremely busy may be said to be busier than a cranberry merchant. What is it that keeps cranberry merchants so busy, anyway?


Read the original blog post.

7:15PM
Oct-26-09


Gabor

New Member

posts 1

as far as I know zig-zag and itzy-bitzy are expressions brought from Hungary with the late 19th century wave of immigration. Zig-zag is a little mysterious though as the Hungarian meaning (of zeg-zeg) is somewhat different.

4:24AM
Oct-27-09


tatiana.larina

Member

posts 4

When I was in England in 1997, Yardley had a lipstick called "Mary Shelley". I still wish I had bought it, not for my personal use (it was a purplish shade, something for Gothic raven-haired women, I suppose), but just as a curio.

11:55AM
Oct-27-09


johng423

Member

posts 127

COLORS:
1. Some companies used to name colors in a way that was clever but still identifiable. The examples I remember are "Zane grey" and "tuckered-out plum."
2. An old story tells of a husband and wife getting ready for a yard sale.
She suggested they print up fliers in an attention-getting color like "sunflower."
"Why do you have to give it a fancy name?" he replied irritably. "Just call it 'yellow'."
When they get to the copy center, he took control and spoke up first: "We want 20 copies of this on YELLOW paper."
To which the clerk responded, "Did you mean 'marigold'?"

11:56AM
Oct-27-09


johng423

Member

posts 127

"first annual" – At work, our publications style guide tells us to use "inaugural" instead. From dictionary.com, the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition, definition includes "To cause to begin, especially officially or formally." So this might be an alternative that avoids the argument.

12:27PM
Oct-27-09


TStegall

New Member

posts 1

When I was in high school 20 years ago we all wore bobos and they were shoes. They were the plain white shoes (similar to Keds) but were not marked, and very inexpensive, usually only worn a few times then replaced. Being the 80s we of course wore them with wildly colored socks too!

I went to school in Tampa Florida

My daughter is 17 in Atlanta and she uses bobo to describe something that is cheap or poorly made – a rickety chair would be “all bobo”, or a sloppy project board (like a science project) is “bobo” which is why they got a bad grade.

Just thought I’d share.

Love your show!!

Tracy Stegall

5:52PM
Oct-27-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 817

Welcome, Gabor. What does "zeg-zeg" mean?

5:52PM
Oct-27-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 817

Tatiana, thanks for "Mary Shelley." I think we'll share a few of these in a future show.

5:53PM
Oct-27-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 817

Post edited 11:08PM – Oct-27-09 by martha


Johng423, I was LOL at that – thanks! Also like your suggestion about "inaugural." Maybe we'll revisit that one, too.

5:55PM
Oct-27-09


martha

martha

Admin

posts 817

Thanks for the kind words, Tracy (and for reminding me about the good ol' days of PF Flyers and Red Ball Jets)!

10:25PM
Oct-27-09


Ron Draney

Member

posts 465

johng423 said:

COLORS:
1. Some companies used to name colors in a way that was clever but still identifiable. The examples I remember are "Zane grey" and "tuckered-out plum."
2. An old story tells of a husband and wife getting ready for a yard sale.
She suggested they print up fliers in an attention-getting color like "sunflower."
"Why do you have to give it a fancy name?" he replied irritably. "Just call it 'yellow'."
When they get to the copy center, he took control and spoke up first: "We want 20 copies of this on YELLOW paper."
To which the clerk responded, "Did you mean 'marigold'?"


The short-lived Apple //c computer came in what the company insisted was "snow beige". The rest of the world thought it just looked "white".

Also short-lived was an early 70s sitcom based on Thorne Smith's "Turnabout" in which a couple (John Schuck and Sharon Gless) got their minds swapped into each other's bodies by a mischievous magical statue. While trying to live his wife's life as an executive for a cosmetics company, the husband was told that the main thing to remember was that you needed to come up each year with twenty new words for "red".

7:58AM
Oct-28-09


ArteNow

Member

posts 33

In listening to the bit about cranberries in odd places, I remembered a trip I did to Washington state a number of years ago. I was driving up the west coast, stopping wherever something looked interesting. I ran across a cranberry research station in the southwest corner of the state and decided to check it out. They had a brochure stand out by the main plots for a self-guided tour.

One of the things I learned there is that not all cranberries are harvested by flooding the plot so the berries will float. Dry-harvested berries are used in cranberry sauce and juice. Wet-harvested berries are sold fresh. I assume because the berries get more beat-up by the dry process and look/last better if they're wet harvested.

ArteNow

7:16PM
Oct-28-09


T-tom

Lubbock, TX

New Member

posts 1

Post edited 12:35AM – Oct-29-09 by T-tom


I heard the discussion about the word "gringo". The story I have always read is that during the Mexican American war, the US troops marching through the country sang a popular song: "Green goes the grass as they go". The term has been used ever since as a derogatory term for Americans of Anglo ancestry. It is definitely an ethnic slur.

8:32AM
Oct-29-09


ArteNow

Member

posts 33

T-tom – 'gringo' isn't necessarily a slur, although it certainly can be, depending on where you are. I think in Mexico it's much more of a slur than in some other places.

I've spent a fair amount of time in El Salvador over the years and (at least among the people I'm interacting with) 'gringo' is used as a simple descriptor and sometimes a term of affection. One time, a group I was with was traveling with the Bishop and one of our party overheard him referring to us as 'gringitos' with an affectionate smile on his face. He was a very kind man and would not have used any form of the word if he'd considered it a slur.

8:29AM
Oct-30-09


Christopher Murray

Ireland

Member

posts 23

The 2009 Ig Nobel Prize winners were awarded at the 19th First Annual ceremony on October 1.

8:38AM
Oct-30-09


Christopher Murray

Ireland

Member

posts 23

Concerning translating spoken language into written, Emma Hardman gave a good description of what is involved in recording parliamentary proceedings in Australia on an ABC (Australia) programme Lingua Franca. She makes it clear that a verbatim transcript would not clearly represent what was said.

2:16PM
Oct-31-09


sita108

Denton, Tx

New Member

posts 1

I was raised using the word bobo to mean someone that is stupid. Someone could be a bobo, or a bobo-head. We also use the word stupid to refer to something that is cheap. Like if I got a toy that was just a cheaply made item, or a little trinket, we would have said it was a stupid little toy.

It would just make sense then, if bobo=stupid=cheap.

9:19PM
Oct-31-09


Goheels

Member

posts 10

As a linguistics minor at UNC I greatly appreciated the anti-prescriptivism bit of this show as well as the shout-out to Dr. Eble. :)

2:35PM
Nov-02-09


wackel

Lodi, CA

New Member

posts 1

If you enjoy color names, check out the names of iris hybrids, such as those found at the "Catalog" link in bluebirdhavenirisgarden.com. Some examples:
GIGGLEPOT
WHITE ARTS
MEET THE BOSS
SAUCY SUE
KILT LILT
SEASHELL MUSIC
LACED LEMONADE
RETURN TO ELEGANCE
WYOMISSING
MIND BEND

4:44PM
Nov-07-09


jedwardcooper

Member

posts 22

TStegall said:

When I was in high school 20 years ago we all wore bobos and they were shoes. They were the plain white shoes (similar to Keds) but were not marked, and very inexpensive, usually only worn a few times then replaced. Being the 80s we of course wore them with wildly colored socks too!

I went to school in Tampa Florida


In elementary and middle school in the eighties I remember singing about those shoes:
"bobos–they make your feet feel fine–bobos–they coss a dollar ninetey nine!"
This was in Elkton, MD

3:00PM
May-24-10


jbmorch

New Member

posts 2

Regarding the colors discussion, Randall Munroe, the writer of the XKCD comic strip, recently did a color survey asking people to invent names for about 1000 colors, and tied the names to computer display color codes. He also asked for a few bits of personal (anonymous) information (sex, color blindness, native language) from the people who took the survey so that he could, for example, sort out how many different shades of "Pink" women chose vs. men. Here's the link to the survey results:

http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/0…..y-results/

4:28AM
May-25-10


ablestmage

Wichita Falls, TX

Member

posts 29

Post edited 4:31AM – May-25-10 by ablestmage


I work in the cosmetics department for a major US retailer, and we've recently gotten in a bunch of new nail polish (OPI brand) with particularly punny names..

Their site is flash-based and not linkable to interior bits, so try going to OPI.com, click on Nail Color in the top left, and from the drop-down menu, "All Nail Colors" and a grid will pop up on the fair right (may require side-scrolling) with mouseovers that list their clever names. A few favorites –

Teal the Cows Come Home, Aphorodite's Pink Nightie, Blushingham Palace, Argenteeny Pinkini, Ladies & Magenta-men, Bastille My Heart, Bling Dynasty, Here Today Aragon Tomorrow, Blue My Mind, Ogre-The-Top Blue, Yuctatan If You Want, Paint My Moji-toes Red, Conquistadorable Color, Silent Mauvie, Tickle My France-y, Over the Taupe, Melon of Troy, Pink Before You Leap, Red My Fortune Cookie..

There are also several from Sally Hansen that are nearly as nitwitted in nomenclature.. (visit http://www.sallyhansen.com/pro…..roduct=385 and hover your mouse over the color grid so the "alt text" will appear near your cursor:

Back To The Fuchsia, Shell We Dance, Plum's the Word, Commander In Chic, Yellow Kitty, Grass Slipper, Shrimply Divine, Pat on the Black..

In addition to these, the "Herbal Essences" brand of shampoo and conditioner also has some cleverly-called creations I thought were rather remarkable: No Flakin' Way, None Of Your Frizzness, Drama Clean, and Tousle Me Softly (from HerbalEssences.com, and hover the mouse over the "products" menu item)..

1:28PM
Jun-14-10


shoyer

Member

posts 3

Regarding the "first annual" question and answers: I think I remember from my journalism classes that nothing can be annual until at least the second time it has happened, as your caller said. We were taught that an initial happening could be deemed "the to be annual event" but better to call it "the event." The second occurrence of that event (obviously a year or so later) would then be accurately called the "second annual event."

Now, if "annual" was part of the name, there'd be no confusion.

1:11PM
Jul-03-10


carolsj

Member

posts 4

TStegall said:

When I was in high school 20 years ago we all wore bobos and they were shoes. They were the plain white shoes (similar to Keds) but were not marked, and very inexpensive, usually only worn a few times then replaced. Being the 80s we of course wore them with wildly colored socks too!
I went to school in Tampa Florida
My daughter is 17 in Atlanta and she uses bobo to describe something that is cheap or poorly made – a rickety chair would be “all bobo”, or a sloppy project board (like a science project) is “bobo” which is why they got a bad grade.
Just thought I’d share.
Love your show!!
Tracy Stegall


1:19PM
Jul-03-10


carolsj

Member

posts 4

I haven't heard bobo used in quite that way. When I was a kid, your bobo was your butt. Currently on the kid's show, Dora the Explorer, the mischevious monkeys are the Bobos. Could this be a reference from Spanish? Wasn't there also Bobo the Clown? All of these have the same implication of bobo being something bad, or at least, inferior.

6:48PM
Jul-03-10


EmmettRedd

Admin

posts 412

carolsj said:

Wasn't there also Bobo the Clown?


There was a Bozo the Clown.

Emmett

7:47PM
Jul-04-10


dilettante

Member

posts 267

carolsj said:

Wasn't there also Bobo the Clown?


You may be thinking of this inflatable toy: http://classictoymuseum.blogsp…../bobo.html.

5:38PM
Nov-29-10


bettysketty

New Member

posts 2

When I heard "bobo" I immediately made the connection to the slang word "bogus" which means bad, terrible or nasty. It was a given as far as I was concerned.

I do love your show and am so happy to be able to listen online. I wonder what it is that creates a fascination with language? Fun, isn't it?

7:51AM
Nov-30-10


CheddarMelt

Pittsburgh

Member

posts 65

I was taught that the first of an event that one hopes will repeat at a given time each year (or month or decade) is called the inaugural event. Also, think about well-established annual events such as the Superbowl. We never refer to Superbowl I as the "first annual Superbowl," but instead we just say the "first Superbowl."

7:38AM
Dec-07-10


dbennett

Louisburg, KS

New Member

posts 1

When I was in the military, we used the word "Bobo" to refer to someone who screwed something up. We'd walk into a room of men and shout, "Who's the goddamned Bobo who did …?" This came and went in the mid '70s, but I've continued to use it in civilian life, although less and less over the years. I've never used it to refer to a thing, just to a person.

I've been on jobs in Mexico (over 200 miles from the border) where no one around me has known English. I was generically called "Gringo" as a quick way to get my attention, especially by those who did not know my name. It wasn't used as a term of denigration, just as a term of convenience.

8:17PM
Dec-11-10


gregoryagogo

San Diego, CA

New Member

posts 1

Post edited 8:19PM – Dec-11-10 by gregoryagogo


sita108 said:

I was raised using the word bobo to mean someone that is stupid. Someone could be a bobo, or a bobo-head. We also use the word stupid to refer to something that is cheap. Like if I got a toy that was just a cheaply made item, or a little trinket, we would have said it was a stupid little toy.
It would just make sense then, if bobo=stupid=cheap.


LOL… In the movie, "Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter" starring Jayne Mansfield and Tony Randal, Jayne Mansfield's real-life husband, Mickey Hargitay played a bit part, "Bo-Bo Braniganski, "The Jungle Man", a TV personality! The character was very dumb!