Discussion Forum

Please consider registering
guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Wildcard usage:
*  matches any number of characters    %  matches exactly one character

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic RSS
Colloquialism assistance
Not a native to the upper Midwest, I wonder whence these cometh?
Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
2013/09/27
11:20am
mcmaguire5
New Member
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
2013/09/27
Offline
1
0

Hi Martha and Grant,

I'm a fairly regular listener to AWWW and thoroughly enjoy the persistent persiflage :-)

I am native to New England, but happily transplanted to the upper Midwest – having lived in the state of Wisconsin since 1988.  Some colloquialisms in Wisconsin that my blue-blooded take on appropriate language do not allow me to forgive include:

  1. The indiscriminate, arbitrary placement of these words/phrases in conversation:
  • "…..and that" – Example:  "We went to Walmart to buy a new grill, and that…"
  • "…yet" – Example:  "The Packers are having a great season yet" (followed by nothing! – just ending the phrase with the word, "yet")

     2.  When describing the movement of something from one side to another, the verbal pronunciation of the word "across" is, in spoken language, pronounced, "acrossed."  Here's a fairly frequent example:  Television or radio broadcasts of weather reports will be spoken by the meteorologist like this:  "We expect this cold front to travel acrossed the mid-section of the state…."

To quell my colloquialism concerns, I welcome your wisdom as to the origins of any of these  :-)

Thanks,

Michael Maguire

Madison, WI

2013/09/27
2:46pm
Glenn
Admin
Forum Posts: 1578
Member Since:
2009/03/03
Offline
2
0

While not a definitive answer, I can make a good guess at #2.

Think of a different spelling of the sound: acrosst. Then consider the following words and word pairs:
among / amongst
amid / amidst
against
mid / midst
while / whilst

It turns out that all of these date from long, long ago (12c to 14c), where the -s comes from an adverbial genitive, and the -t as an ornamental addition standardized between 14c and 16c.

Note that against LOST its original non-s non-t form for all intents and purposes.

You still find acrosst in some dialects.

Online Etymology Dictionary

whilst (adv.) Look up whilst at Dictionary.com
late 14c., from while (q.v.) with adverbial genitive -s-, and excrescent -t- (as in amongst, amidst).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=whilst
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=midst

against (adv.) Look up against at Dictionary.com
early 12c., agenes "in opposition to," a southern variant of agen "again" (see again), with adverbial genitive. The parasitic -t turned up mid-14c. and was standard by early 16c., perhaps from influence of superlatives.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=against

2013/09/28
1:32am
RobertB
Member
Forum Posts: 427
Member Since:
2012/02/20
Offline
3
0

I'd like to think the fact that question 1 above was raised by mcmaguire5 and not answered by Glenn is a sign of my good understanding of the language: the usages in question ring no bells whatsoever for me.  A wild guess though: the 'yet' probably means 'so far,  but wait till the season is over.'

2013/10/19
9:16pm
smort
New Member
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
2013/09/27
Offline
4
0

Since no one else has so far tried to shed any light on the phrase "and that", I can tell you that in the Pittsburgh PA area it is such a common phrase that it has even become a contraction which is frequently seen written "n'at".  It is used to mean "and other things relative to the subject at hand", and is roughly equal to "et cetera".  Thus the following Burgh-ism could be heard in almost any local neighborhood: "We went to GianIggle to get some bread an' jumbo, n'at."  translation "We went to the Giant Eagle grocery store to buy bread, bologna, and other sandwich fixings."  I have no knowledge of how widely spread it's usage may be, but Pittsburgh has certainly embraced it.

2013/10/20
4:04am
Glenn
Admin
Forum Posts: 1578
Member Since:
2009/03/03
Offline
5
0

Good info.

If I were forced to venture a guess, I would first pursue a connection to and all that. . And all that seems to be used widely in the same way. The shorter may in fact come from the longer. C.f. And all that jazz; and that kind of thing; and all that kind of stuff.

2013/10/29
3:00pm
stevenz
Member
Forum Posts: 18
Member Since:
2009/05/08
Offline
6
0

Smort accurately describes the Pittsburghism n'at. I've lived in both Pittsburgh and Wisconsin and have to say I haven't noticed n'at in WI. Or the yet thing but I'm probably not paying attention. But Pittsburgh has another local abomina…. er, colloquialism and that's n'em. "And them." As in "we went dahntahn to get some chipchop and an arn with Bob and Ellen n'em." Translation: We went downtown to get some chipped chopped ham and an Iron City (beer) with Bob and Ellen and any likely combination of people that would accompany 'we' and Bob and Ellen on such a journey. ". (Names have not been changed to protect the guilty.)

2013/10/29
6:12pm
Dick
Fort Worth, TX
Member
Forum Posts: 350
Member Since:
2010/10/19
Offline
7
0

I was not really relating to all this until stevenz brought up " n'em. "  This is straight from Texas country folk. (Probably all through the south.)  A sample conversation would be: 

How's your mom n'em? 

They all good. 

Tell em hey.

Strange things come out of country folk that you overlook if you hear it enough.

2013/10/30
1:55am
RobertB
Member
Forum Posts: 427
Member Since:
2012/02/20
Offline

Sometimes you have to go away for a long time, and come back.

2013/10/30
8:58am
New River, AZ, USA
Member
Forum Posts: 750
Member Since:
2010/05/18
Offline
9
0

mcmaguire5 said: Example:  "The Packers are having a great season yet" (followed by nothing! – just ending the phrase with the word, "yet")

Yeah, I heard that alot back in Wisconsin where I grew up. More common, at least in my area of upper Wisconsin lakeside, was: "The Packers are having a great season … enso?" I used that for years before really thinking about it. I'm pretty sure the "enso?" is a contraction of "and so?" which itself is a contraction of "and isn't that so?" It's always spoken with an upward inflection, implying a question is being asked, but it was often used rhetorically.

 

Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 1147

Currently Online:
9 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Heimhenge: 750

Bob Bridges: 676

Ron Draney: 619

RobertB: 427

tromboniator: 371

Robert: 354

Dick: 350

samaphore: 319

dilettante: 287

Raffee: 238

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 604

Members: 2991

Moderators: 1

Admins: 5

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 1

Topics: 3084

Posts: 16243

Newest Members: Kissezlean, Haerlee, pampmap, Lisbet, holahada, Twisted2014, BMayer, pyrogue, Zednotzee, bensabio

Moderators: Grant Barrett (1420)

Administrators: Martha Barnette (828), Grant Barrett (1420), EmmettRedd (619), Glenn (1578), timfelten (0)