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To sack
No, not from Romans
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2013/11/01
6:52am
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Robert
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The slanged ‘sack’ must have taken root in modern times (especially the ‘sack’ in football), or at least there just cannot be any link to this ancient Roman sacking:

The convicted patricide was tied up inside a sack with a snake, a chicken, a monkey, and a dog, all still alive. The sack was then sewn up tight and dumped in a river.
-According to Alberto Angela in his new book ‘Reach of Rome.’

No, too far a link.

 

Incidentally, there are many ancient ‘animal rights’ traditions, but Rome didn’t participate.

2013/11/01
8:06am
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Robert said

The slanged ‘sack’ must have taken root in modern times (especially the ‘sack’ in football), or at least there just cannot be any link to this ancient Roman sacking:

The convicted patricide was tied up inside a sack with a snake, a chicken, a monkey, and a dog, all still alive. The sack was then sewn up tight and dumped in a river.
-According to Alberto Angela in his new book ‘Reach of Rome.’

No, too far a link.

 

Incidentally, there are many ancient ‘animal rights’ traditions, but Rome didn’t participate.

But, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) does link them. In their v.1 entry, your quoted definition is 1.b. The football sack is 1.d.

On the other hand, the sacking of Rome is from v.2.

2013/11/01
9:37am
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Robert
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Ok the act itself was perpetrated multiple times on ancient Rome. But the word was not from the Roman style of punishment, no?

2013/11/01
9:58am
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Robert said

Ok the act itself was perpetrated multiple times on ancient Rome. But the word was not from the Roman style of punishment, no?

I am not sure I understand your question. But the etymology that the OED gives for v.1 is

< sack n.1: compare Latin saccāreto strain through a bag (medieval Latin also to put into a bag), Middle Dutch sacken(Dutch zakken), German sackento put into a bag.

and for v.2 is

sack n.2Compare Provençal saquejar, Spanish saquear, Portuguese saquear, Italian saccheggiare.

HTH

2013/11/01
4:30pm
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Robert
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There is the Sack of Rome and there is the sack of Rome and they are unrelated.

2013/11/01
6:24pm
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deaconB
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Robert said
There is the Sack of Rome and there is the sack of Rome and they are unrelated.

But what about the sack which is drunk? I don’t think there is any connection between “sack” and :package store”. where I’ve read of it, it was in the Elizabethan times, and there were no state stores then, I think; you bought your alcohol in a tavern or inn.

But I don’t know the history of sack.   Apparently, it has evolved into today’s dry (“sec”) sherry, but do you suppose pirates fortified their crew with fortified wine in order to sack and pillage a merchant’s ship?

2013/11/02
1:45am
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Robert
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If I read the last line correctly, you are suggesting that pirates are known for looting and drunkenness, so the word ‘sack’ came round to wine ? Very strenuous conjecture here.

I think that boozed pirates won’t be worth much to their own comrades let alone the enemies. Yes they will turn into drunken animals , but only after battle, but then they will go for any number of things to loot beside wines.

Theoretically the first literature or tablet that contains the usage of a word will always be out there if you have the patience. How much do you pay?

 

 

2013/11/02
5:38am
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deaconB
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Robert said
If I read the last line correctly, you are suggesting that pirates are known for looting and drunkenness, so the word ‘sack’ came round to wine ? Very strenuous conjecture here.

I think that boozed pirates won’t be worth much to their own comrades let alone the enemies. Yes they will turn into drunken animals , but only after battle, but then they will go for any number of things to loot beside wines.

I was thinking of “dutch courage”.   The hashashim (however it’s spelled) were considered formidable because they were unafraid of death or injury, due what they’d been smoking.

The original use of “sack”?   No. But thee are lots of instances where similar words converged.
 

 

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