Discussion Forum

Please consider registering
guest

Log In Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

  

— Match —

   

— Forum Options —

   

Minimum search word length is 4 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic RSS
To sack
No, not from Romans
Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
2013/11/01
6:52am
Robert
Member
Forum Posts: 409
Member Since:
2011/10/03
Offline

The slanged ‘sack’ must have taken root in modern times (especially the ‘sack’ in football), or at least there just cannot be any link to this ancient Roman sacking:

The convicted patricide was tied up inside a sack with a snake, a chicken, a monkey, and a dog, all still alive. The sack was then sewn up tight and dumped in a river.
-According to Alberto Angela in his new book ‘Reach of Rome.’

No, too far a link.

 

Incidentally, there are many ancient ‘animal rights’ traditions, but Rome didn’t participate.

2013/11/01
8:06am
Admin
Forum Posts: 638
Member Since:
2007/08/23
Online
2
0

Robert said

The slanged ‘sack’ must have taken root in modern times (especially the ‘sack’ in football), or at least there just cannot be any link to this ancient Roman sacking:

The convicted patricide was tied up inside a sack with a snake, a chicken, a monkey, and a dog, all still alive. The sack was then sewn up tight and dumped in a river.
-According to Alberto Angela in his new book ‘Reach of Rome.’

No, too far a link.

 

Incidentally, there are many ancient ‘animal rights’ traditions, but Rome didn’t participate.

But, the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) does link them. In their v.1 entry, your quoted definition is 1.b. The football sack is 1.d.

On the other hand, the sacking of Rome is from v.2.

2013/11/01
9:37am
Robert
Member
Forum Posts: 409
Member Since:
2011/10/03
Offline

Ok the act itself was perpetrated multiple times on ancient Rome.  But the word was not from the Roman style of punishment, no?

2013/11/01
9:58am
Admin
Forum Posts: 638
Member Since:
2007/08/23
Online
4
0

Robert said

Ok the act itself was perpetrated multiple times on ancient Rome.  But the word was not from the Roman style of punishment, no?

I am not sure I understand your question. But the etymology that the OED gives for v.1 is

< sack n.1: compare Latin saccāreto strain through a bag (medieval Latin also to put into a bag), Middle Dutch sacken(Dutch zakken), German sackento put into a bag.

and for v.2 is

sack n.2Compare Provençal saquejar, Spanish saquear, Portuguese saquear, Italian saccheggiare.

HTH

2013/11/01
4:30pm
Robert
Member
Forum Posts: 409
Member Since:
2011/10/03
Offline
5
0

There is the Sack of Rome and there is the sack of Rome and they are unrelated.

2013/11/01
6:24pm
deaconB
Member
Forum Posts: 266
Member Since:
2013/10/17
Online
6
0

Robert said
There is the Sack of Rome and there is the sack of Rome and they are unrelated.

But what about the sack which is drunk? I don’t think there is any connection between “sack” and :package store”. where I’ve read of it, it was in the Elizabethan times, and there were no state stores then, I think; you bought your alcohol in a tavern or inn.

But I don’t know the history of sack.  Apparently, it has evolved into today’s dry (“sec”) sherry, but do you suppose pirates fortified their crew with fortified wine in order to sack and pillage a merchant’s ship?

2013/11/02
1:45am
Robert
Member
Forum Posts: 409
Member Since:
2011/10/03
Offline
7
0

If I read the last line correctly, you are suggesting that pirates are known for looting and drunkenness, so the word ‘sack’ came round to wine ?  Very strenuous conjecture here.

I think that  boozed pirates won’t be worth much to their own comrades let alone the enemies.  Yes they will turn into drunken animals , but only after battle, but then they will go for any number of things to loot beside wines.

Theoretically the first literature or tablet that contains the usage of a word will always be out there if you have the patience.  How much do you pay?

 

 

2013/11/02
5:38am
deaconB
Member
Forum Posts: 266
Member Since:
2013/10/17
Online
8
0

Robert said
If I read the last line correctly, you are suggesting that pirates are known for looting and drunkenness, so the word ‘sack’ came round to wine ?  Very strenuous conjecture here.

I think that  boozed pirates won’t be worth much to their own comrades let alone the enemies.  Yes they will turn into drunken animals , but only after battle, but then they will go for any number of things to loot beside wines.

I was thinking of “dutch courage”.  The hashashim (however it’s spelled) were considered formidable because they were unafraid of death or injury, due what they’d been smoking.

The original use of “sack”?  No. But thee are lots of instances where similar words converged.
 

 

 

 

Forum Timezone: America/Los_Angeles

Most Users Ever Online: 1147

Currently Online: EmmettRedd, Glenn, deaconB
43 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Heimhenge: 786

Bob Bridges: 675

Ron Draney: 630

RobertB: 423

Robert: 409

tromboniator: 394

Dick: 387

samaphore: 312

dilettante: 287

deaconB: 266

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 608

Members: 2981

Moderators: 1

Admins: 5

Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 1

Topics: 3157

Posts: 16673

Newest Members: Paul Scollan, thesparrow, wally, alandyer, JackieM, Sacto, koochiching, M. Henry Lucero, Papillon, pritchettal

Administrators: Martha Barnette: 820, Grant Barrett: 1422, EmmettRedd: 638, Glenn: 1602, timfelten: 0