Is a Gaming “Die” Etymologically Related to a Metalworking “Die”?

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hello, my name is Jerry Dragon. I’m calling from southwest Virginia on the border of Tennessee and Virginia.

Hi, Jerry.

My question is, I play in a band and we were at the studio, myself, the drummer Chuck Burdick and the bass player Jimmy Eppard and some other people.

And we were discussing songs and we were discussing a song by Polko called Consequently So Long.

And one of the lines in the song was, now the die is cast, nothing happens in the past.

And someone asked, well, what does that mean?

And one of the gentlemen said, well, it’s when you throw a dice. You can’t change it, so once it’s done, you can’t change it.

And I’m also a machinist, and I said, well, there’s also a die, and you cast a die in machining. Maybe that’s the reference.

So we had a little discussion about it.

We came to the conclusion that because dice are probably much more ancient than the machining aspect of it, that it was probably a reference to that, and they probably referenced it to when, I guess, Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon.

I think he said, now the die is cast. The die being cast in machining, is that directly taken, and is it related to throwing dice, and is that why it’s called that?

Oh, boy, what a great question.

There’s a lot to unpack here.

There’s a lot of dying and casting here and kind of confusing about which is which.

You’re absolutely right about the phrase, the die is cast, going back to Julius Caesar.

And just to review, I mean, Caesar had completed this successful military campaign conquering the territory of Gaul up north and west of Italy.

And then, as you suggested, he headed back south to Rome.

And at the time, there was a law that prohibited military commanders from leading their armies to Rome, lest they use their armies to take over the government.

So Caesar’s traveling south through Gaul, and as you noted, he crosses the Rubicon, basically declaring civil war against his political rival Pompey back in Rome.

So you’re right, it’s this pivotal moment.

And he supposedly said something to the effect of the die has been cast or the die is cast. I’m rolling the die right now, alia iacta est in Latin.

You’ve already tossed that cube with the dots on it, and there’s no turning back.

Yeah, you’re right also to suspect that dice are really, really old.

They definitely go back to ancient Rome where they were made of bone or metal or antlers.

But then you bring in all this other interesting line of thinking because casting as a verb historically has meant to throw.

And then later came to have the sense of the form of something that gets thrown.

So you have cast in terms of dice, of course, but you also have like a plaster cast, which is a model or casting a fishing line or even the cast of a play.

Those are the characters who are thrown into or the actors who are thrown into this or that role.

And that’s one I never thought of. Yeah.

So this is why we throw pottery. I never thought of that.

I didn’t either until this very second.

But also this is why there’s cast and broadcast and podcast.

Right, right.

Casting around.

Broadcasting seeds is the agricultural metaphor that eventually gave us broadcasting sound and conversations like this one.

So the word dye is also a really interesting term.

It’s not until, I think, the late 1600s that dye comes to mean an engraved block or tool that you use to stamp a softer material or that you pour stuff into, metal into.

Well, that would be the mold, to make a dye.

Yeah, right.

So you would cast the dye in the mold.

Okay, okay.

And that’s a little tricky to sort out, but it may be because those dyes back in the 17th century were used in pairs, you know, to press both sides of a coin, for example.

But that’s a little tricky, isn’t it, Grant?

Yeah, it is hard to separate it out.

But in general, it is believed that the term die used in manufacturing, such as in stamping metal or using molds and casts, although it’s later, does get its origin from the dice or the die used in numbered gaming cubes.

So it may come from that, the idea that you’re using this process to make that thing.

That’s what I suspected because once you pour a mold and you cast the die, it cannot be changed.

Just like when you throw dice, it can’t be changed.

But it’s super messy.

It’s super messy partly because these words are so common and because they’re so simple.

It’s hard to prove that the numbered gaming cue casting a die and the manufacturing casting a die are directly connected.

It could be.

But it looks like they are at this distance because they’re both so very old.

Well, Jerry, thank you so much for everything you brought to the show just now.

We really appreciate it, and thanks for listening.

We really appreciate that, too.

And rock on.

Thanks, Jerry.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

Whether you’re a rock and roller or a machinist or something else, you’ve got great language in your life, and Martha and I want to share.

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