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for ... purposes
Monica Sandor
1
2008/01/08 - 6:20am

I keep coming across these two forms: "for information purposes" and "for informative purposes" (eg in the sense that a document, or report, is provided for information purposes only). There are more examples on Google of the first of these phrases (eg from Barclays Bank, the NHS in England, the Web site of County Offaly in Ireland, Texas Transportation Commission) and it is what I would normally use, but I am wondering if it is correct.
I can see that it comes from "for purposes of information". In the second phrase, informative is an adjective modifying "purposes", which I suppose comes down to the same thing in the end.
Any opinions?

Martha Barnette
San Diego, CA
820 Posts
(Offline)
2
2008/01/10 - 9:24pm

Monica, I'm still unclear what they mean by any of those phrases!

Reminds me of when I get a long phone bill and one of the pages has printed on it:

THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.

Say what?

Martha Barnette
San Diego, CA
820 Posts
(Offline)
3
2008/01/10 - 9:26pm

Or, come to think of it, eons ago when I was at The Washington Post, if a word-processing program crashed, a message would flash across the screen:

AN IMPOSSIBLE EVENT HAS JUST OCCURRED.

Say whut?

That's kind of how I feel about "for information purposes." Isn't giving that information a little redundant? Or is there some specific use I'm missing here?

Monica Sandor
4
2008/01/11 - 3:30am

Martha, I do see your point. Generally speaking it might just be one of those empty bizspeak phrases. In the context in which I work, that of a financial regulator, I think it has a similar value to the phrase "without prejudice" at the top of a legal letter.
In other words, the document is not being provided in fulfilment of some legal obligation to disclose it, but the company is sending it voluntarily. It is thus intended solely to provide information, not to be used as or in place of formal reporting. I suppose it may also have the implication that the recipient has no right to demand the information (in future) just because in the past the company voluntarily provided it.

Whether or not the phrase strictly speaking adds anything, if the authors insist on including it I just want to be sure I use an idiomatically correct form.

Martha Barnette
San Diego, CA
820 Posts
(Offline)
5
2008/01/13 - 9:11pm

Well, Monica, I was being a little silly, of course. I can see where those phrases might have some kind of specific use in your case. I'm inclined to agree with you. The expression "for information purposes" simply feels more natural to me. Maybe just because I've just heard it more often that way.

Now that you mention it, though, it's weird, isn't it? I think I'd probably describe something as being "for educational purposes" rather than "for education purposes."

I don't know. What do you think about that one?

Tobert
6
2008/01/14 - 12:27am

martha said:

Or, come to think of it, eons ago when I was at The Washington Post, if a word-processing program crashed, a message would flash across the screen:

AN IMPOSSIBLE EVENT HAS JUST OCCURRED.

Say whut?

That's kind of how I feel about “for information purposes.” Isn't giving that information a little redundant? Or is there some specific use I'm missing here?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assertion_(computing)

That's an assertion in a program where the programmer was being clever.

Here's an example in Perl 5.


sub get_treatment {
    my $animal = shift;
    my $treatment;

    if ( $animal->isa('cat') ) {
         $treatment = 'milk';
    }
    elsif ( $animal->isa('dog') ) {
         $treatment = 'broth';
    }
    # get_treatment() only knows about cats and dogs
    # this next else block should never happen
    else {
         die "It's not a cat, no is it a dog!    This is impossible!";
    }
    return $treatment;
}

Here it is in English.


If the animal is a cat, the treatment is milk.
Otherwise, if the animal is a dog, the treatment is broth.
For everything else, jump up and down while exclaiming "It's not a cat, nor is it a dog!  This is impossible!"

Programmers are presumably humans, who make mistakes. Most of them are aware of at least the fact that they make mistakes. It's often better to display a strange error message than to do nothing. In the example above, if the program returned nothing or anything other than milk or broth, it would cascade problems further down in the program which would be extremely difficult to debug, rather than making it obvious where the problem is at the earliest opportunity.

Monica Sandor
7
2008/01/22 - 1:43am

Now that you mention it, though, it's weird, isn't it? I think I'd probably describe something as being “for educational purposes” rather than “for education purposes.”


I don't know. What do you think about that one?


I never thought of that, Martha - there is probably some subtle distinction between using the simple noun form as an adjective, and the adjectival form with "-al".

For instance, an "information package" (package containing information) vs an "informational video" (the video is itself intended to provide information, to serve as information, not to contain it in the same way as a package does). Information video would sound wrong to me, as would informational package.

I'm still not sure this answers why "information purposes" - because it is short for 'for the purpose of information', and does not mean that the purposes themselves are informational, as a video might be?

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