Discussion Forum—A Way with Words, a fun radio show and podcast about language

Here are some links that discuss possible origins of the expression “the whole nine yards”: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 (the last of these requires membership, which is free).

On the topic of erythrophobia (if you will), interesting articles talk about redheadedness here, here, and here.

[This post and my other post are written in reference to hearing May 31st replay of the original episode by WFYI - Indianapolis.]
Regarding "ginger" referring to a red-headed person as well as the documented mistreatment of such a person, especially in the UK. FIRST, in the US and much of the UK the word "ginger" is pronounced with the 'gin-' part sounding like the liquor. In northern England the word is pronounced with the 'gin-' part with a hard "g"(?) ... as in using the 'gin' from the word BEGIN ... thus GINger.
As for the negativity resulting from being ginger (yes, ginger is often used as a noun in northern England when referring to a red-headed person) ... sadly derives itself from the long history of mistreatment and war between Scotland and England. Scots were caricatured as being red-haired ... as well as being quick to fight and short-tempered. To this day, the prejudice continues with the red-headed people in England ... and 'ginger' is also used in many negative slang phrases.

A woman wonders about a phrase from her past: “I'm going to beat you like a red-headed stepchild.” Martha and Grant discuss gingerism, or prejudice against redheads.

In the late 1960s I spent several months in the island of Cyprus. This was in connection with a psychological research project that I was conducting with a colleague of mine JamesTenzel M.D.

While the island was at that time divided between the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot areas, we were allowed to circulate freely over the whole island. One place we visited was the village of Bellapais and its famous Abbey (Abbaye de la Paix). This village was the home of the British author Lawrence Durell during the time when he was writing the Alexandria Quartet. He also wrote a memoir titled Bitter Lemons about his time on Cyprus.

The Abbey was founded by a group of French monks in the 12th century, and apparently abandoned in the 13th or 14th century. The story we were told (and the reason for my note here) was that these monks were all of fair skin and redheaded. Soon after the Abbey was established, children began to be born in the village with similar characteristics even though the village was composed largely of Mediterranean types who were dark-haired and dark skinned.

The story goes that after a while it became too embarrassing for the church to maintain this Abbey under such circumstances and it was abandoned.

While I do not know whether the reference to redheaded stepchildren can be traced back to this obscure village in northern Cyprus, it struck me when I heard Martha and Grant's program this morning.

When we visited this charming village and its Abbey, the views over the northern Mediterranean were breathtaking and it was easy to see its attraction for both its founding religious order and for writers such as Durell who obviously fell in love with this village.

Incidentally, for those not familiar with the island of Cyprus it is replete with ruins artifacts and constant reminders of Western and Middle Eastern civilizations dating back to the Phoenicians. Cyprus was the essential linchpin for all empires in the eastern Mediterranean and as a result was conquered by all such civilizations for the last 4000 years. It is also the setting for which Shakespearean play? (Think Venetian)!

On the topic of 'squeejawed' my family used it as I was growing up in Clare County Mi. My older reletives remembered farming with draft animals and they were given the dirctions 'gee' and 'haw' for left and right. If a new driver gave the wrong direction then corrected it I can see an older driver saying something like, "That looks all gee hawed."
So I can see squeehawed coming out of that.
I vote for Paduan for the children that are being babysat. Its a word that sounds affectionate but not familial.

Saralinda said:

There is also a large hunk of anti-ginger-hair-itude reflected in J K Rowling's books.

it's rare that a “bad guy” speaks of the Weasley family without a demeaning reference to their red hair.

My suggestion is really off the top of my head 🙂 But consider what catches your eye when you look at a crowd of full heads of hair. Any redheads would stand out like a beacon. So maybe this all really has to do with a literal bulls eye. When we have problems in our own lives there is a redhead that catches our eye and we can project on that person. By the Way here in western Wisconsin we have a lot of redheads and we love them.

Grant was brainstorming and came up with padawans. Martha suggested Watsons. I suggest we conflate the two terms and call kids who are babysat "Padawatsons"

I knew that being "ginger" in the UK was reason enough to be picked on, but I was surprised that a few years ago South Park had an episode "Ginger Kids" where one of the characters (Cartman of course) says something like all red-heads are unable to walk around during the daylight hours because they are evil and have no souls.

Stephen Mikesell said:

At the end of the discussion about the term for baby-sat children, "care-giver" was mentioned. So how about "care-kids" or "carekids"? It carries a punch and has good connotations.

Regarding those kids one sits. I don't sit kids, but I do sit dogs, and I call them my "sitlets"

I LURVE the word Squee-Jawed, everyone I know uses it in Kalamazoo, MI, where I grew up. I didn't know it wasn't common until I moved near Cincinnati, when I had a terrible time describing it to people (it's easier to show them). Now, I have never heard the word Squee-Jawed to mean something hanging crooked, like a picture, but I have always heard it in the context of something that should be square (such as a bookcase) being out of square. A picture on the wall was just crooked.