Sweet Spot (episode #1630)

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Grant Barrett.

And I’m Martha Barnette.

We got an email from Julie and Harv Busta, who think that they’ve identified a hole in the English language that needs to be filled.

They just moved to Duluth, Minnesota, and they write, we’ve been searching for a word that describes the migration of grandparents to the location of their children and grandchildren. We and many of our friends have begun this migration. None of us knows a specific word that describes this event. Many folks we know have moved far away, such as from Minnesota to New York City. And if there’s not already a word for this, we propose grandate. It’s a combination of migrate and grandparents.

So, for example, you’d say, there’s been a significant grandation to the Midwest. Or are you grand dating to be closer to your kids? And they end the email by saying, what do you think? Let’s make this a word.

Maybe. Let’s just call it what it is. Free babysitting relocation.

Yeah. I think the term needs to be cuter. Reflect the fact that you’re going there for adorable children, right? Baby magnets, baby satellites, pudge migration. I don’t even know. You’re going for the little cuties.

So the verb would be pudge migrate to them.

Yeah, pudge migrate.

That sounds naughty or something.

I don’t know. I thought it sounded kind of august. But I do think that they’ve identified something that we really could use a word for because I have friends who are already planning the move to Oregon, even though their kids don’t have babies yet.

Well, I think this is something that we’re going to have to crowdsource. Does grand date work for this, or is there another word for grandparents migrating to where their grandchildren live or planning to? Share your thoughts. You can call us at 877-929-9673 or send us an email. The address is words@waywordradio.org, and we welcome calls and emails from anywhere in the world. You can find out how to reach us at waywordradio.org/contact.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, this is Laura Harsh. I’m calling from Tucson, Arizona.

Hey, Laura. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Laura.

Oh, thanks. Hi, how are you?

All right.

I have a question. I live in Arizona now, and previous to that, I was in New York and in California. But I grew up in Virginia, and my grandmother, who was from West Virginia, used to always have this expression called that she would say things were tight as a tick. And, you know, when I was a kid, I never really thought too much of it. But as I got older, it was an expression that I started adopting, I think, because I was not living in Virginia anymore. And people would ask about it and look at me really puzzled. And I’d be like, oh, you know, I think that it actually has something to do with like an engorged tick. And of course, they would get really a little grossed out by that.

But then I started wondering, I’m like, was I only thinking that because I was a kid and that’s how I pictured it? Or is it really more about the time between a tick, like the tick of a clock? Because she would use it in a way that was like things were tight and close together. So I’m not sure, so I thought I’d ask.

And have you ever had a tick on you, Laura?

I have, but none that were so engorged that they met the description of it.

But you’ve seen them on dogs like that maybe or other animals.

On a dog, yeah, totally, yeah.

Yeah, it is the insect. It’s not the clock. It’s not the ticking of a clock. It’s about the, literally the word I would have used, engorged tick. This full-taught body plumped with blood.

Yes, a very disgusting sight, particularly if there are a bunch of them in one location. You just shiver.

Charming, charming.

But yeah, I mean, I can see that. I’ve definitely found some on our dogs when I was growing up. You know, growing up near the Chesapeake Bay, your dogs would get them and, yeah, get a little full.

I wonder if the expression is not as common in the West because ticks aren’t quite as common in the West, although they do exist. But another part of this which interests me is that tight as a tick can be used to refer to someone who is very drunk. I think it’s faded now and a little bit old-fashioned, but it’s still out there.

And another one is the meaning of tight as in miserly. So you can say somebody is tight as a tick if they are very reluctant to spend money.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah, all of these play on the multiple meanings of tight.

Okay, so I wouldn’t be wrong then sometimes if I would use it, the way that she would use it would be if a room was really packed with people. I’d be like, oh, it’s tight as a tick in here.

Oh, yeah, that’s fine.

Yeah, that’s a great meaning. Tight can mean that, right?

Yeah.

Catchful, well-packed, well-fastened, miserly, drunk. A drunk tick is tight two ways, I guess.

I think tight as a tick for being drunk might have to make a comeback. I’ll have to use it that way sometime.

I do like that creative idea, Laura, of the instant between the ticks of a clock. It’s really beautiful.

But, yeah, I’m afraid it’s the insect. If the insect grosses people out when you say tight as a tick, there are some other expressions you can use. You can say tight as a duck’s butt, which, of course, is watertight. And you can also say as full as a piper’s bag, referring to the bag of a bagpiper, which is centuries old as well.

Yeah.

Or just tight as a drum.

Tight as a drum.

Oh, yeah, that’s true.

I think I’ll stick with tight as a tick.

Yeah, absolutely. Respect that heritage.

That’s right.

There you go.

Laura, thank you so much for your time with us. We appreciate it.

Well, thank you for your time. Have a good day.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye, Laura.

Bye-bye.

Call us to talk about the linguistic heirlooms in your family, 877-929-9673, or send them to us in email, words@waywordradio.org.

We had a conversation not long ago about the expression, I beg your pardon. And that prompted a memory for Patricia from Greenville, North Carolina. She said that when she was growing up on the playground, the kids would use this expression back and forth. And she said sometimes one kid would say, I beg your pardon, their voice dripping with sarcasm. And the other kids would respond and say, I grant your grace, I hope the cat will spit in your face.

Oh, I’ve never heard this. This is wonderful. Where was she when she was a kid?

Well, she was in Greenville, North Carolina. And I did a little bit of digging and that’s not the only version of it. Another one goes, I beg your pardon. I grant you grace. I hope the cat will scratch your face.

Yeah, that sounds just like kids, doesn’t it?

Doesn’t it? Back and forth.

We love your childhood rhymes. Share them with us. 877-929-9673.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Ahoy.

My name is Sean Raufi, and I’m calling from New York City.

I am very curious about the phrase, the business end of blank, blank, blank. It seems like there’s a lot of options to choose from, but I’m curious where this phrase comes from originally, and I would love for you all to shine some light on this.

Were you on the business end of something that got you wondering?

Something right in your eyes?

I think I’ve heard the phrase, you know, like the business end of a gun.

Right, right.

So, Sean, it’s pretty straightforward. It’s the part of something that does the business or fulfills its purpose. And as you suggested, it’s particularly used with a weapon or often a tool like the business end of a shovel. Often it’s used ironically or jokingly. It’s almost never absolutely serious, right?

There’s a bit of tongue in, maybe not tongue in cheek, but somebody is not quite serious or very formal when they use this expression.

Yeah, yeah.

It’s a little wry, I would say.

That’s a great word for it.

Well, thank you.

Yeah, the business end of a stick. I’ve also seen the business end of a snake, which would be the part that bites you. And a wasp. The business end of a wasp.

That’s a common one.

Yes.

Do you two have a favorite business end of?

Well, given the field that we’re in, the business end of a microphone, the business end of a pen or a pencil.

That’s exactly what I was going to suggest.

Or in my case, the business end of a leash, that would be my dog that gets too interested in other dogs when we’re out walking.

With babies, the business end changes.

So you have to be careful.

Sounds like a dog too.

Yeah, a dog too.

So, Sean, that’s pretty much it.

There is one little extra little tidbit that I want to toss in here.

There is a sense of business which can mean troublesome action or bother or fuss.

So, for example, if someone is giving you the business, Sean,

That means they’re giving you the runaround or giving you a hard time.

And that sense of business might be coming into play here in some people’s minds

When they talk about the business end of anything.

Well, I’ve loved asking you guys this question.

I’ve been the business end of this podcast or radio show for quite some time,

And you guys are so playful and so curious, and I just love listening to you two.

Oh, that’s nice.

Thank you for listening.

We’re glad to have you along.

Yeah, it’s great to have you come on the air and play with us.

Well, call us again sometime.

There’s so much happening in New York City,

I’m sure you come up with language questions every day.

I will do just that.

All right, take care of yourself and be well.

Bye.

Bye.

Bye, Sean.

Well, pick up your phone, dial our number, and speak into the business end. 877-929-9673.

I recently came across a term that has me thinking. It’s plant blindness. Do you know this term, Grant?

Yeah, I think that’s when sunflowers don’t know which way to turn to find the sun.

For heliotropism?

Yeah, for heterotropism. No, that is not the meaning of it. I just made that up.

Tell me about plant blindness, Martha.

Well, it’s a term that was invented by botanists in the 1990s to refer to the inability to see or notice plants in one’s own environment.

Because that leads to the inability to recognize the importance of plants in the biosphere and how they affect us.

And I’ve seen this term used more and more.

You know, we just, there are studies that show that if people are rapidly presented pictures of animals and plants,

They will focus on the animals and not the plants.

And in fact, little kids learn early in their lives that humans and animals are living beings,

But they take a lot longer to recognize that plants are also alive.

And so plant blindness is a term that refers to our sort of tuning them out, I guess.

Yeah, we have a bias for other mammals, don’t we?

Our biophilia leans more towards other things that have faces and eyes.

Mm—

I wonder if my son is experiencing plant blindness when he doesn’t notice that he should put some salad on his plate at the dinner table.

He goes straight for the pasta and meatballs and just like reaches around the green stuff.

Right.

And it just sits there.

We know from our email and phone calls that you all have amazing professions and cool hobbies.

And you know what we like?

We like hearing about the language you use in your cool professions and cool hobbies.

Email us, words@waywordradio.org, or find us on our website at waywordradio.org.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it.

I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett.

And here he is in a top hat and tails, looking like he’s stepped out of a steampunk novel.

It’s our quiz guy, John Chonesky.

Yeah, ironically, I stepped out of a steam bath.

And that’s terrible for the top hat.

It’s really, you don’t want that.

But nevertheless…

You’re leaving a trail.

I know.

I’m so sorry.

I apologize.

You guys are familiar, of course, with Stephen King.

Stephen King, the author who has written dozens of novels.

But how many of you know about his annoying doppelganger, Stephen Kong?

Now, Stephen Kong…

Yeah, you know where we’re going.

Stephen Kong hasn’t written quite as many books, but that’s just because he gets his

Ideas by stealing King titles and changing just one letter.

For example, Stephen Kong took Stephen King’s book about a writer with writer’s block, Bag of Bones, and he changed it to be about a financier with a briefcase full of debt securities, and he called it Bag of Bonds.

Gotcha.

Not as good.

Not quite as good as a book.

No, not as interesting.

I’ll describe the Stephen Kong novel.

If it’s needful, I’ll give clues to the Stephen King novel from which it was adapted.

Okay?

Okay.

Here we go.

Now, Kong’s first novel details the harsh high school and terrible prom of the author who created Peter Pan.

Barry?

What’s that?

Barry?

Yes, Barry.

Yes, Barry.

B-A-R-R-I-E.

Barry.

Instead of Carrie.

Instead of Carrie, as J.M. Barrie created Peter Pan.

Very good.

While Stephen King’s big novel was about a community of noble people versus an awful, sinful society in Las Vegas, Stephen Kong’s book was about a third group in a town where everybody was respectable, but also quiet and unadventurous and solemn.

So The Stand becomes The Stade?

The Stade, yes.

The Stade.

There’s actually not many words you can change the stand to.

The Stade is it.

I don’t want to read a book about the Stade.

One of Stephen Kong’s creepiest antagonists is a retired nurse who traps several characters in her cabin,

Including Ebenezer Scrooge, Scrooge McDuck, Silas Marner, Hedy Green, and other famous penny pinchers.

Oh, heck.

Oh.

I’m your biggest fan, John.

Oh, what do you got for me, Martha?

Me too.

Misers.

Misers, yes.

Doesn’t she say I’m your biggest fan?

Instead of misery.

I’m your biggest fan, that’s right.

From misery to misers.

Now, while Kong writes longhand in ink, it annoys his wife to no end.

He never throws out his writing implements when he’s done with them.

He just tosses them in a cup on his desk, like we all do.

Maybe he’s hoping they’ll come back to life in his novel about revived office supplies.

What?

So it’s about the car.

What was the book with the car that comes out?

No, no, not the car.

Oh, Pet Sematary.

Oh, Pet…

Pen.

Pen Sematary.

Pen Sematary.

Hands up, how many people have a Pen Sematary on their desk?

Oh my gosh.

Finally, Arnold Schwarzenegger starred in the film adaptation of King’s novel about a deadly game show.

But Arnold Schwarzenegger starred in Kong’s novel about a dad who simply will not stop making wordplay-based jokes.

Horrifying.

The Punning Man.

The Punning Man, yes.

The putting man, yes.

The running man.

You guys did very well on that sort of literature-based quiz.

Kind of.

Yeah, no, you did really well.

Thank you.

Good job.

Thanks, John.

And if you’d like to talk with us about any aspect of language whatsoever, we’d love to hear from you.

Call us, 877-929-9673, or send those questions and observations to words@waywordradio.org.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Hi, Martha and Grant. This is Christine Ruffner calling from Denver, Colorado.

Hi, Christine. Welcome to the show.

Hey, Christine.

Hi. I have actually a language etiquette question that I was hoping to get y’all’s thoughts on today.

Okay.

Sure.

Yeah, fire away.

Okay. I’m wondering how you approach it when there’s a word, often a proper noun, and there’s a difference between the correct pronunciation and the common pronunciation.

And I guess you have an example.

Yeah, sure.

So for example, there’s a Japanese clothing store found across the U.S.

And for years, I thought the English pronunciation was Uniqlo.

And then I overheard a friend who has a very keen ear for pronouncing words, and she pronounced

It slightly differently with Uniqlo.

And so I went online and found that that second pronunciation is actually the more correct

Pronunciation.

But now when I mention the store around others, they are using the common pronunciation.

And when I use what I believe to be correct, sometimes there’s an awkward pause or a strange look.

And, you know, I want to be kind.

Correcting other people’s pronunciation doesn’t always feel really necessary or it can come off as sort of haughty.

Yet it also feels awkward to pronounce a word I know to be inaccurate.

So I’m wondering how you all manage that.

And if you have any advice for all of us language lovers who have encountered this.

So, Christine, you’re saying that you now pronounce it the common but incorrect way?

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. It kind of depends who I’m with and how well I know them.

Yeah, I think those are good factors to consider.

I mean, what are the stakes and what’s the purpose of correcting them?

But that’s a really good, tricky question because, yeah, I’m thinking of things where you know the correct pronunciation, but it’s not that widely known.

I mean, there’s a mountain here in San Diego called Coles Mountain.

And for years I called it Cowles because that’s what everybody said.

But then I did some digging and it’s called Coals, but I’m always feeling awkward when I talk about going hiking on that mountain. I just kind of mumble. And also if somebody pronounces something that I know to be incorrect, I don’t know, you know, I’m an Enneagram 5, so I’m always wondering if there’s something that I don’t know. So I often ask them a question like, oh, is that the way you pronounce it? I’ve always heard it this way.

Yeah, I like the manners and etiquette part of this, Christine. The manners of keeping one’s mouth shut are often better observed than possibly being helpful by correcting someone, right? Sometimes it’s just better to be quiet than to be right. Right, right. And yet I can really relate to Martha’s feeling that there’s this sort of awkward, like, you pause before the word comes out of your mouth. And yeah, sometimes they say it one way. Sometimes I say it the other way. And I’m not sure. Yeah, if I should stick with one, if that would make me feel more comfortable. But I guess you’re right. It kind of depends who you’re speaking with.

I would personally, but that’s my personality. I would just keep saying it the way that I knew to be correct. But sometimes when this happens and I’m around people who might not know better, I’ll say both. I’ll say it my way. And then I’ll like kind of exaggeratedly or even sarcastically say it the incorrect way.

Yeah, humor is always a good.

Yeah, so I’m not really telling them how to say it. I’m just demonstrating that I know that both exist.

And, Christine, I’m wondering if you’ve ever been in a situation where everybody is pronouncing a word incorrectly and you know that they’re wrong, and then they get confronted with the actual pronunciation of the word. You know, like if you go to that store, for example.

Yeah, I can’t think that I have, but that would actually be a good way, bring everybody I meet to that store and ask the employees to pronounce it in front of them. Maybe that would solve it.

Well, that reminds me when I was trying to get to the bottom of the G-Y-R-O pronunciation, and I went to four different places that make G-Y-R-O, and I got four different pronunciations from the staff. Yiro, gyro, gyro. It was just ridiculous.

Yeah.

But generally, we try not to correct people in public. If we have to, we do it privately and quietly. And it’s in very limited circumstances. And it’s about being helpful, not making yourself look smart. So obviously your kids or your grandkids, I think it’s your place definitely to gently and politely correct them privately. And people who work for you and particularly if they also work for the public or produce public-facing materials, those are good people that I think it’s fair to find a nice way to correct them or people that you hire.

And there isn’t one exceptional case, and this requires a lot of judgment. It’s when people are in danger of making a very bad permanent mistake, like saying something truly embarrassing when they’re about to meet the in-laws for the first time or put something on tape that’s going to be seen by millions across the country. I mean, you really have to save them from themselves, but those are rare circumstances.

Yeah, I kind of think of it as the linguistic equivalent of spinach between your teeth, you know, like I would want to know.

Yeah, and I think especially when it’s a proper noun that you might not have ever heard pronounced before, that feels a little bit better. Maybe gently correcting someone’s pronunciation or demonstrating what you are confident the correct pronunciation is versus, you know, just a regular word.

Yeah, and you better be correct because the corrections, and I put that in quotes, that Martha and I get all the time, most of them are incorrect. So miscorrections are more common than accurate corrections, at least in our world.

Yeah, yeah, we get those you of all people emails. You want to reply back and go, no, we got it right. You’re just not correct.

Christine, have we helped you at all or just muddied the waters?

No, this is very helpful. It’s helpful just to get another perspective on it, and especially from you of all people.

Well, we’re happy to help. Let us know if one of these comes up again, and we’ll hash it out one more time, all right?

Thanks, Martha and Grant. Big fan and happy to speak with you today.

Yay.

Take care of yourself, Christine.

Thanks for calling, Christine.

Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.

One of the reasons that we have a toll-free number that works in the U.S. and Canada is because we love hearing stuff from other countries. If you’re listening in Mexico or Spain or Japan, Australia, wherever you are in the world, give us a call. 1-877-929-9673.

And if you say, oh, wait, that doesn’t work in my country. Well, we have a WhatsApp number and we have contact forms on our website. Go to waywordradio.org.

If you need a term to describe the shape of the infinity symbol, there is one. I didn’t realize this until recently. It’s a drunk eight. Or a dead eight, I guess. But you can also say that that shape is lemniscate. L-E-M-N-I-S-C-A-T-E. Lemniscate.

Oh, you’re going to tell me more about that word, right? Lemniscate. Because the word goes back to a Greek word that means a ribbon or bow because it looks like a bow.

Yeah, it sure does.

Yeah, absolutely does. So that describes that fallen over eight infinity symbol. Anything else that might have that? Like would you describe the ribbons used for charities and causes? Like, you know, the pink bows or pink ribbons as lemniscate because they look like ribbons?

No, I know that there are shapes like that that are formed when you’re doing certain kinds of mathematical equations. The term is used in mathematics, but I just love that there’s a word for that particular shape, lemniscate.

There’s a word for us that is listeners. We listen to your calls and we read your emails. Call us 877-929-9673. Toll free in Canada, anywhere in North America, as a matter of fact, can call us. There’s even a number, a different number, from Mexico. You can find it on our website at waywordradio.org.

Hi there. You have A Way with Words.

Hi. Hi, this is Yanni, and I’m calling from Bradford, Vermont.

What’s on your mind today, Yanni?

Okay, so several months ago, my husband and I were with a friend of ours that we’re doing a writing project with. And we were about to sit down to the writing table, and our friend said, oh, wait, wait, wait. This is in shambles. I have to, you know, I have to organize it.

So I looked at him clearly and I said, I started laughing because my association with the word was completely different from the way my buddy was using it. Trying to describe his mess on the table. Because my first encounter with shambles was when I lived in England in the late 70s after art school. And my employer said to me when she saw that I liked to write, I liked to draw rather, she said, you need to go up to York to the marvelous shambles. And that’s the first time I ever heard shambles. And I did go up to York and I did do some drawing. And they were just beautiful. And so I’ve never thought of the shambles as a mess, as meaning a mess.

So that’s the word.

So the marvelous shambles?

Well, my employer described it like that. She said, the marvelous shambles. And I thought, oh my gosh, what’s that?

And what was it? The shambles is an area in York, very narrow streets. It’s in the center of York. And it’s where there’s lots of tea houses and shops. And the buildings are sort of hugging each other and pouring into each other. So it reminds me of Frank Gehry’s architecture. Things are moving and dancing. And it’s just really lovely. It’s a great place to draw.

So charming.

Oh, wow.

Yes.

This may surprise you to learn, but before it was a lovely little tourist town with shops and tea shops and little places to get a bite to eat, it was an abattoir, a place filled with butcher’s stalls. And the blood and flies and the smell and the noises that go with that.

For about a thousand years, that particular street in York was well known as the Flesh Benches or the Flesh Shambles, where people sold meat, an open-air market for selling meat. And shambles meant a stool or a bench.

And over the years, this idea of a place covered with blood and carnage came to be used for war. What happens that people do on a battlefield to each other when they slaughter each other for the sake of victory.

And then, of course, it was reduced through some kind of semantic bleaching, we call it, where the grossness of it, the disgusting part of it was kind of bleached away. And now we just think of a mess or a ruined area as a shambles.

But it all stems from that exact street in York being a place with lots of animal bodies being butchered. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

It was very different then. There are other descriptions in there. As a matter of fact, that street is mentioned in what’s called the Domesday Book, D-O-M-E-S-D-A-Y. So that’s how old it is.

It is very old and lots of descriptions of it exist from when it was something else entirely. Well, I had heard people using it to describe a mess. I didn’t quite understand how bad of a mess.

So I’m like, wow, so it’s quite an old word. Yeah, and there are other, historically, there have been other shambles, other streets that took, or areas of towns that took the name of the benches used to butcher. And now it’s a beautiful marketplace.

Right, right. And you can go shambling along, right, and looking at all the places. It’s thought that this term for table or bench, shamble, has to do with the verb to shamble. Maybe the splayed legs of the bench or the way that the person sits astride it. You’re shambling.

Oh, my gosh. I like using it that way. Shambling along. Okay. Well, thank you so much. I love your show. It’s really lots of fun.

Oh, it’s our pleasure. And it was our pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you for your time, Yanni, and for your question. Okay. Thank you so much. Take care of yourself. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye.

Call us to talk about word histories and mysteries, 877-929-9673. There is a lovely Finnish word that means both to spin thread and to purr as a cat does. It’s kerrata. Kerrata.

Oh, I love that because a spinning wheel does have this humming, thrumming sound. Exactly. Very much like a vigorous purring from a kitty cat. Exactly. That’s a lovely term.

Call us with your favorite words and idioms, 877-929-9673. A Way with Words is about language seen through family, history, and culture. Stay tuned for more.

You’re listening to A Way with Words, the show about language and how we use it. I’m Grant Barrett. And I’m Martha Barnette.

If you’re in a book club, how do you all decide what books you’re going to read? In some groups, everybody takes a turn choosing a book. And I know that there are other groups where everybody votes on which book they’re going to read.

And I also know of groups where everybody chooses a different book and comes ready to make a little presentation to the group about that book. So you learn about several different books in one sitting.

So which of those works best? I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, ever since I heard an interview with the president of the American Library Association, Emily Drabinski. She’s in a group that reads 50 books a year in 50 different categories.

And the categories are really cool. I reached out to her to find out what kinds of books they read. And the list of categories includes a book you first heard about on social media, a book with a color in the title, a book with a word or phrase in the title that describes you.

And she says approaching reading this way has really opened up her mind. For example, one of the books that she was supposed to read was a book that’s generated a lot of popular buzz. So she ended up reading Paris Hilton’s memoir.

And she said she actually liked it, that it opened up her mind and it made her think in some new ways. So she’s really glad that she read it. And Grant, I’m really fascinated by this idea of lexical cross-training.

You know, sometimes I can get in a particular mode where I’m just reading a certain kind of book. And I really like this idea of stretching my mind a little bit, stretching my reading to accommodate that kind of list of books.

I love it, too. There’s something about escaping the tyranny of the bestseller list that can lead you down wonderful new paths. Because there are so many books published each year, you have to slice and dice them to get down to something manageable.

None of us are going to read all that many books in a given year. I think I read more than most people, but a lot of my stuff is fantasy fiction or genre fiction, that sort of thing. But when I read the high-level stuff, I do fall into niches and ruts.

And I think it is amazing just to say what kind of random wonderful thing will I find if I only go for books that have the word cowboy in the title or purple or where the author is somebody who’s not from this continent or anything. Or it’s in translation from Polish. You know, what am I going to get? I might get something amazing.

Well, we’d be really interested to hear how you choose the books that you read, especially if you’re in a book club. How do you all come to that decision? And do you have some kind of list of categories to choose from? Or what would your list look like to expand your reading?

You can hit us up on the Internet at waywordradio.org. We have a zillion ways to reach us, including email, phone number, WhatsApp, text message. You can find it all there, including all of our past episodes.

Hey there, you have A Way with Words. Hi, this is Mav calling from Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, Mav, welcome. What’s going on in the isthmus?

Yeah, so I have a question about a term that popped up recently in the internet slang. The term is chat. It comes from content creators streaming on platforms like YouTube and Twitch, referring as a collective to their viewers to have the ability to type messages that the streamers can see and so their nickname chat.

So I’ve noticed people taking this one step further and using it in everyday situations, like using it in modern Internet slang, saying things like chat. Is this real or do you see this chat to nobody in particular?

So I was talking about it with my friends and we came up with the topic of chat being a fourth person pronoun. So I guess that’s where my question really lies. Is there such thing as a fourth person pronoun? And if so, would this be an example of one?

Oh, okay. Let’s break this down. This actually came up in the 2023 Word of the Year vote at the American Dialect Society Annual Conference in New York City that I attended. And there was some discussion about chat and whether or not it was a pronoun at all, much less fourth person.

And the linguist that I heard unanimously agreed it is not a pronoun. If you take any sentence where chat is being used in this way, it’s called the vocative use. That is, it’s being used to address people when you’re speaking to them.

And if you replace chat with audience or listeners or readers, you’ll see that there’s nothing special about chat being used this way. It’s not a new grammatical form. It’s not a pronoun, and it’s certainly not a fourth person pronoun.

So that said, I love the use. I really do. I love the idea that it has left this streaming realm where perhaps on Twitch, you’d say, let’s see what the chat thinks. And then the chat all says their comments. And then and the host who’s on video kind of summarizes or reads out the best ones.

And you’ll find gamer or gamers used in the same way.

You find YouTube videos, Mav, where people are greeting the viewers like, hi, gamers.

And it’s not even about gaming.

It’s not a video game playthrough or anything like that.

They’re just using gamers to address their audience as a group.

Yeah.

I have a friend who refers to us as that in person.

So, yeah, although I love the fact that it’s left out, it’s so common that it’s able to leap out of something like Twitch or YouTube streaming.

It isn’t a pronoun use, and it’s not fourth person.

Fourth person would be if you said something like, one wouldn’t want to get one’s hands dirty while wearing white slacks.

The one in that sentence is basically a fourth person pronoun.

It’s really rare in English.

Okay.

Got it.

Yeah, it shows up in some other languages.

Some other languages.

Yeah, yeah.

There’s some Native American languages from the East Coast that use it, but again, not in English, not that common.

What this could be considered, if you’re looking for something linguistic to take back to your friends, is a form of moronymy.

This is M-E-R-O-N-Y-M-Y, where we use a part of a thing to refer to the whole thing.

So chat is just one part of the whole streaming experience, but it’s not the act of chatting we’re talking about when we use chat in that way,

But we’re talking about the people who are doing it as a collective, as a body.

So we use meronomy in the same way when we say nice wheels about someone’s new car.

We’re referring to the whole automobile, even though we’re saying wheels.

So wheels is a meronym.

Or if we’re talking about military deployments, we’re talking about boots on the ground.

The boots means actual people.

They’re clearly wearing more than boots.

So that’s what’s really happening here from a linguistic point of view.

The meronomy where the small part is standing in for the larger whole.

Meronomy. That’s awesome.

We really appreciate you reaching out to us.

And if anything else like this comes up, we’re your people, okay?

Yeah, of course.

Thank you guys so much.

All right.

Be well.

Thanks for calling.

Take care.

All right.

Bye.

Hey, gamers.

Lots of ways to reach us.

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We’re on Blue Sky, Reddit, Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook, Instagram, and Smoke Signals.

We’ve talked before about the beginnings of fairy tales around the world.

In Korea, for example, a lot of fairy tales begin in the old days when tigers used to smoke.

And I was talking the other day with my friend Umay, who lives in Turkey,

And she said that when she was growing up there,

There was a formula that she always heard at the beginning of fairy tales.

And it goes, once there was, once there was not,

When camels were town criers and fleas were barbers,

When I rocked my grandfather’s cradle back gently.

And then the story begins.

Isn’t that gorgeous?

Oh, that’s so nice.

And you know that by then you’re all set, right?

You found your seat.

Your ears are open.

You’re intently watching the storyteller.

Lovely.

No matter your language, no matter where you are in the world, we would love to hear from you.

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Hello.

You have A Way with Words.

Hi.

Hi.

Who’s this?

This is Dan Richard.

I’m calling from Jacksonville, Florida.

Hey, Dan.

What can we do for you?

Well, I grew up in South Louisiana, and we have this phrase that we say.

It goes,

And it means to look at something that’s foolish or to look at something that’s surprising.

It kind of translates, can you believe this or something like that.

And I was trying to think about, well, where does that come from?

And I wasn’t able to get a real good French kind of direct translation.

And it seems I was wondering if it was related to going gaga over something.

It’s like we’ll shorten it sometimes and just say,

Gaga, you know, look at this.

And so I didn’t know if that was related to this like focus of going gaga over something.

Can you say the expression again?

Yeah, gaga de don.

Gaga de don.

And so this is Cajun French or Louisiana French.

That’s right.

I know it’s a little different than in French.

It’s a dialect.

Yeah.

But we can still hear the roots of it there.

And what we are hearing is the gar is from a verb meaning to look.

Oh, okay.

As in the English regard.

And then donk is D-O-N-T is then.

Sometimes you’ll hear it as megardonk or just gardonk or gardmedonk.

And you’re right.

It translates as, well, you look at that or get a load of that or well, I never or well, I say.

It’s just kind of like an expression of surprise.

That’s exactly how we use it.

So somebody’s just done something ridiculous.

Like you got your four-wheeler stuck in the mud and can’t get it out, you know.

Megardonk.

Right.

But it is not related to Gaga, although Gaga does come from French.

To be Gaga over something is to be kind of enchanted by it or flabbergasted by it or just crazy for it, you know.

But the French, the Gaga comes from this French slang imitation of the way someone speaks who doesn’t have control over their faculties.

You know, they make nonsense sounds that kind of sound like ga-ga-ga-ga-ga.

But further back than that, it comes from hospital slang in France,

Where there’s this word gâteau, which sounds like cake.

It sounds like the French word for cakes.

But it comes from a verb meaning to spoil or to ruin.

So it’s the first part of that word, G-A-T-E-U-X, or gâteuse is the female version.

And so it’s the gaga duplicated to make that gaga sound.

But yeah, originally from French hospital slang.

Oh, thank you very much. It’s very interesting.

Yeah, sure.

I’d love to talk to you again sometime about the Cajun French.

There’s so much that’s still happening there, and it’s so interesting,

And it’s always a chance for me to pull out some Cajun music from YouTube

And put it on in the background as I’m digging into it.

So we’ll let the good times roll.

As they say.

Yeah. C’est bon.

C’est bon. Okay.

Dan, thanks for calling.

Okay. Thanks so much.

Bye-bye.

Take care. Bye-bye.

Our toll-free number in the U.S. and Canada is 877-929-9673.

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Go to our website, waywordradio.org/contact.

Hello, you have A Way with Words.

Yes, this is Dr. Gary Barrett, and I guess we better get out of the way.

There’s no nepotism here.

I do not know that we’re related to Grant at all.

My long-lost son.

My friend, I may be your long-lost father versus your son.

Well, welcome to the show, Dr. Barrett.

Where are you located?

Yeah, I’m calling from Lars, South Carolina.

This time I called because I used to listen to you guys on South Carolina.

And, excuse me, it was first on WHQR out of Wilmington, North Carolina.

And that’s 60 miles away from Lars.

And then we got you guys on South Carolina, and I came from Conway, which is 20 miles just south of Lars.

And so I was beginning to contemplate, well, I’m in the sweet spot.

I get a double serving of you guys every week.

And then I was concerned about, well, where did sweet spot come from?

Where did that originate from?

What did it really mean?

Yeah, you definitely are in the sweet spot to hear our show.

You get us coming and going.

So sweet spot, S-W-E-E-T space, S-P-O-T.

You might have heard this in a sports context.

In golf and baseball and cricket and surfing and figure skating, each of these sports have a notion of their own sweet spot.

For example, in figure skating, it’s the spot where your skate blades touch the ice when you spin.

And in cricket, the sweet spot of the bat is known as the meat of the bat.

Just like in baseball, both of these sports, it’s the place where when you make contact, the greatest force is possible or the greatest control of the ball.

And each of these has variants.

In baseball, you might also say hit it with the good wood or hit it right on the screws.

And in surfing, the sweet spot is the place that is best to stand on a particular surfboard.

But the earliest uses that I know of all come from golf, and it’s the spot on a club’s head where the ball makes contact for the most effect.

And there was Spalding, who you may know, makes sporting equipment, including golf clubs and golf balls.

Spalding used to run a series of ads in the 1920s that specifically used the phrase sweet spot to talk about the benefits of their clubs.

And so I don’t know that that’s the source of it, but certainly it was an early source of popularization.

I mean, sweet to mean good or beneficial and not talking about food and taste.

It has a long, long history.

So it is kind of natural that sweet and spot would go together.

But it is also interesting, at least to me, that it’s kind of widely spread throughout different sports and different sporting activities.

But, you know, sweet spot is used all over the place.

It’s not just in sports.

You’ll find it in the right temperature for making beer.

You’ll find it.

It’s what you have to do with an instrument where the sound is most pleasing.

So there’s a ton of this.

So you might even have sweet spots on your back when somebody gives you a massage or a back scratch.

Well, I will look forward to that next time around, my friend.

Well, we will look forward to hearing from you again sometime.

Thank you so much for your question.

Okay, bye now.

Liam in San Francisco called us to share a favorite quotation from Donna Tartt’s 1992 novel, The Secret History.

And the line that Liam shared with us is wonderful in itself, but it’s part of a longer passage that I think is worth reading in full.

Now, to set it up, The Secret History is set in a fictional college in Vermont, and the narrator is transferred from a college in California.

And in this passage, he’s describing some of the things that he sees and feels as he’s walking around this idyllic campus.

And it goes in part, a group of red-cheeked girls playing soccer, ponytails flying, their shouts and laughter carrying faintly over the velvety twilight field.

Trees creaking with apples, fallen apples red on the grass beneath, the heavy sweet smell of apples rotting on the ground and the steady thrumming of wasps around them.

Commons clock tower, ivied brick, white spire, spellbound in the hazy distance.

The shock of first seeing a birch tree at night, rising up in the dark as cool and slim as a ghost.

And the nights, bigger than imagining, black and gusty and enormous, disordered and wild with stars.

Is that sensuous or what?

Yeah, it’s the last part that Liam particularly wanted to bring to our attention about the night.

Right, black and gusty and enormous.

That’s what you see in rural Vermont.

We love it when you share beautiful passages of writing from what you’ve been reading.

Send them to us in email, words@waywordradio.org.

Our team includes senior producer Stefanie Levine, engineer and editor Tim Felten, and quiz guide John Chaneski.

We’d love to hear from you, no matter where you are in the world.

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A Way with Words is an independent production of Wayword Inc., a nonprofit supported by listeners and organizations who are changing the way the world talks about language.

Special thanks to Michael Breslauer, Josh Eckels, Clare Grotting, Bruce Rogow, Rick Seidenwurm, and Betty Willis.

Thanks for listening. I’m Martha Barnette.

And I’m Grant Barrett. Until next time, goodbye.

Bye.

Thank you.